8th Ammendment USA

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by deany, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. deany, Jan 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017

    deany macrumors 68030

    deany

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    Location:
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    #1
    I cant comprehend the 8th ammendment-

    "The Eighth Amendment(Amendment VIII) of the United States Constitution prohibits the federal government from imposing excessive bail, excessive fines, or cruel and unusual punishment."

    Some prisoners are being locked in a 8 foot by 10 foot cell for 23 hours a day, with zero human contact especially in Supermax prisons.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17663629
    "But current and former inmates, lawyers and others familiar with the prison describe it as an infernal environment in which even the design of the cells and the architecture of the prison conspire to render the inmates docile and drive them mad."

    "A cleaner version of HELL"

    "There are more mentally ill prisoners than in hospital" old link but I'm certain nothing has changed.

    http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/storage/documents/final_jails_v_hospitals_study.pdf

    Clearly this is "cruel and unusual punishment"

    Why is this left to happen, it is absolutely appalling.

    NB
    Those who will post "they are animals, and deserve to be treated as such" please move on and don't bother posting, thank you.
     
  2. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

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    #2
    I agree. Sadly just one of many, many issues in America's justice system.
     
  3. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #3
    you're opening a can of worms. You have to check out the XIV amendment - for due process and equal protection of thelaw - and the incorporation doctrine.
    Also check Robinson v California (1962) and Furman v Georgia (1972).
     
  4. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #4
  5. oneMadRssn macrumors 68040

    oneMadRssn

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    #5
    In general I agree with you. The issue with such vague language as in 8A is that its really open to interpretation. I've heard great argument that lethal injection is cruel and unusual. I've also heard solid argument that some forms of forced rehabilitation is crueler and more unusual than solitary confinement. Unfortunately SCOTUS isn't like to touch this anytime soon.
     
  6. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #6
    Holy crap, during the Clinton era the inmate population was 2x what it is now!
    --- Post Merged, Jan 24, 2017 ---
    It's vague because it's a "tricky" question that the US leaves to the States in general. As for the federal court, being it so general the government can do virtually what it wants.
     
  7. jerwin macrumors 68000

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    #7
    Come back in at least four years-- the right doesn't care.
     
  8. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #8
    So what did Obama do about it?? See post 6. More in jail under Clinton
     
  9. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #9
    what does oboma have to do with people in prison? but hell I am sure he is responsible for you being short too.
     
  10. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #10
    Maybe one day you will try and read what is quoted so that you can try and understand post.......obviously today is not it
     
  11. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #11
    Gave 1,700 of them huge breaks. Thank God he's out.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 24, 2017 ---
    why would anyone care? the ones in such conditions aren't animals but they aren't exactly deserving of much. high time we spend more time focused on people who are productive contributing members of society vs worrying one bit about those that put themselves in prison.
     
  12. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #12
    I read it and blaming the president even under trump is just silly blame. you want oboma responsible for everything. oboma was not responsible for not putting people in jail either.
     
  13. jerwin macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #13
    Hmm. really? I'm not quite sure which table/dataset you're referring to.

    But... a couple of things.

    Bill Clinton could be a right bastard when it comes to this sort of thing. Officially most democrats have different views today.
    https://www.themarshallproject.org/...-two-platforms-on-criminal-justice#.7xZUE2D7O
    The federal incarceration rate is 90 per 100,000.
    The total incarceration rate is 910 per 100,000-- meaning states do most of the incarceration. Even the least incarceratory state (Maine, pre LePage) imprisons 350 per 100,000 adults

    so there's not a whole lot for the President to do-- except use the bully pulpit and set an example, where it would not conflict with the demands of the legislative and judicial branches.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_incarceration_and_correctional_supervision_rate
    Mandatory minimums got really popular during his tenure.

    Now, it is good that some conservatives have embraced the cause of sentencing reform.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...entencing-reform-bill/?utm_term=.58071728181a

    and Obama, for his part, attracted stories like this one.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...on-without-any-sentencing-reform-legislation/

    and this one

    http://reason.com/blog/2016/05/05/obama-announces-new-round-of-commutation
    http://reason.com/blog/2016/05/11/heres-what-to-expect-from-the-latest-att

    But Trump nominated Jeff Sessions to be his Attorney General. You can read about his record here...

    https://www.brennancenter.org/sites...enatorJeffSessionsRecordonCriminalJustice.pdf

    There always the possibility that Congress will seek a more confrontational attitude towards Trump, and bills that seek to reduce the prison population will be submitted for his veto.

    (I'm not going to get into the deportation thing. Why argue the "merits" of a delusion?)
     
  14. Zenithal macrumors 601

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    Sep 10, 2009
    #14
    ADX Florence? Unusual hell? The criminals who find themselves there are some of the most hardened criminals. I highly doubt they give a damn. The inmates there are lifers.
     
  15. jerwin macrumors 68000

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    Jun 13, 2015
    #15
    Doubling Up Prisoners In 'Solitary' Creates Deadly Consequences


    It's insane, but I have my doubts that anything(at least on a federal level) will be done about it anytime soon.
     
  16. Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

    Snoopy4

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    #16
    There's nothing cruel and unusual about a bed, a toilet and three squares a day for a criminal. They should be happy we don't just have arenas run by the inmates where they decide their own justice.
     
  17. jerwin macrumors 68000

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    #17
  18. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #18
    Supermax prisons are the safest of all federal penitentiaries. No getting shanked, no getting raped in the shower. I'll take a Supermax prison cell any old day.
     
  19. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    Boston
    #19
    I believe Time magazine did an article on ADX a year or two ago, as that's where they were sending the Marathon Bomber. ADX sounds horrific.

    I'm not so concerned about their cell size or spending 23hrs a day inside. Social and sensory isolation has tremendously negative effects on the human psyche. It would be good if they could find a way to occupy the minds of these inmates. Additionally, providing psychiatric care also seems necessary, as it apparently is lacking.

    The problem is generally ADX inhabitants are the worst of the worst, and therefore unsafe around other inmates. In the case of Tsarniav, he's in supermax I assume for his own safety. I can't imagine he'd survive long in the general prison population. Then it comes down to cost supervising of more freedoms. The cost of prison is already ridicuously high.

    So it's a tough situation.
     
  20. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    Location:
    L.A. (Lower Alabama)
    #20
    If they clean up prisons any more, they will have nation-wide school walkout since most prisons are in much better shape than public schools.
     
  21. deany thread starter macrumors 68030

    deany

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    #21
    Most of the Supermax 'solitary confinement' inmates clearly have mental health issues.

    Even the inmates that don't initial, will suffer from this "cruel" inhumane treatment and eventually have mental health issues.

    • This is "cruel and and unusual punishment" clearly going against the 8th Amendment.

    I thought that The Amendments to the Constitution represent everything right and just about America.
     
  22. 5684697, Jan 25, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  23. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #23
    Is there a reason you post such nonsense? How does (paraphrased) "we shouldn't be treating these people inhumanely" translate to "five star resort" in your twisted logic?
     
  24. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    Apr 11, 2011
    #24
    My dad, a former marine who fought in WWII and Korea always said they should put prisoners in the barracks/tents as the military gets. Make them do the same or similar work during the day as well.

    Good enough for the military who will risk their lives to defend the country, then good enough for a prisoner.
     
  25. 5684697, Jan 25, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017

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