90,000 Field Reports Leaked

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by citizenzen, Jul 26, 2010.

  1. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #1
    I'm all for exposing our wars to the light of day. But I do have to wonder if this wasn't an intentional leak to increase pressure on Pakistan.

    Here's an interesting quote from today's NY Times article...


    Pakistan Aids Insurgency in Afghanistan, Reports Assert

    Nonetheless, senior lawmakers say they have no doubt that Pakistan is aiding insurgent groups. “The burden of proof is on the government of Pakistan and the ISI to show they don’t have ongoing contacts,” said Senator Jack Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat on the Armed Services Committee who visited Pakistan this month and said he and Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, the committee chairman, confronted Pakistan’s prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, yet again over the allegations.



    How do you prove that you're not in contact?

    Anyways... this issue will probably be the flavor of the month for the next week.

    Unless of course, somebody gets a blow job.
     
  2. lewis82 macrumors 68000

    lewis82

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    #2
    Wikileaks is down. I hope it's only overloaded and not shut down by the US Army...
     
  3. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #3
    The problem is that nobody seems to really know who is in charge in Pakistan. Elected government? Army? ISI? USA?
     
  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    I used to be a supporter of the Afghanistan effort (yes, even with Bush), but I believe it's time to leave. Let them solve their own problems. We can do no more there.
     
  5. Queso macrumors G4

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    Mar 4, 2006
    #5
    It does seem to be turning into a complete lost cause. The window of opportunity for turning the tide militarily was back in 2003-2005. I wonder why the resources weren't made available at that time....
     
  6. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #6
    Too much money to be made from Iraq, that's why.
     
  7. 184550 Guest

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    #7
    The billions to made from that recent mineral discovery in Afghanistan is certainly a factor too.
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #8
    Mmmmm... leeks.

    From what little I've seen of the leaked documents, they don't sound like things the government wants out there, and they don't seem aimed at pressuring the Pakistani government.

    It's going to take a while to see what is buried in these documents.
     
  9. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    Location:
    CT
    #9
    There are supposedly another 15,000 pages that will be released. So who is the mole.
     
  10. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    Oct 9, 2006
    #10
    Even if we pull out we have to do it slowly and carefully not to leave a power void as that would lead to mass unsuitability no only for that country but the reign as well.

    I have a problem with people screaming pull out pull out and not wanting to clean up the mess we leave.
    I disagreed with going into Iraq but at the same time I will argue not to just pull out until we clean up the mess we left. We took out the power that was their and the US filled that void. Now we have to transition is slowly so the local government can control the power.
     
  11. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    Jul 11, 2003
    #11

    We still discussing Iraq? :D
     
  12. Cave Man macrumors 604

    Cave Man

    #12
    Apparently a young enlisted soldier. If he's convicted, he's looking at life in Leavenworth or some other unpleasant place. I doubt they'll ask for the death penalty for him.
     
  13. Queso macrumors G4

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    Mar 4, 2006
    #13
    Don't they reserve that for children on buses and wedding guests?

    Sorry, below the belt. I'm just getting sick to death of all the ******** that is happening in my country's name :(
     
  14. Cave Man macrumors 604

    Cave Man

    #14
    Collateral damage and errors are an unfortunate reality of warfare. But no other nation goes to the extent of avoiding them than does the USA. They spend far more money on precision delivery than any other nation. Unfortunately, they use them more often as well. War is an ugly, inhumane endeavor.

    NATO should be ended. There's no need for US troops in Japan or any European nation. The nuclear triad should be reduced to a dyad (ICBMs and subs). Probably would save a ton of money for the USA, too.

    You should be able to change it. Just click on Edit then choose Advanced Edit and fix the typo.
     
  15. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #15
    Can see the point about putting pressure on Pakistan, it's a good one too - would almost buy it myself if the dirt wasn't piled up so high. Just guessing, but I reckon the focus of the media will be on criminal charges against officers and civilian deaths and friendly fire deaths.

    I wonder if there's more than 1 mole.. that would be a trick and a half if that possibility escaped the attention of intel..

    Whoever done this, doesn't want us to be there anymore..
     
  16. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #16
    I used to think the same, but if Pakistan is going to continue to work against us, while claiming to be an ally, there's little left for us to do. Time to pack up and leave and let Pakistan deal with it. Screw this BS.
     
  17. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

    Joined:
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    #17
    so basically we make a mess and leave the people their to clean up and do the same.

    That is not right. Sorry but we made a mess and we still have to clean it up. We might just have to do it with out Pakistan.
     
  18. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #18
    Do you think we can remove the Taliban before 2014? The UK is pulling out then, so if it's not possible by then, we may as well pull out now.
     
  19. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #19
    What makes you think that we CAN "clean it up"?
     
  20. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #20
    "Now we have to transition is slowly so the local government can control the power."

    Which would be fine and dandy were there any sort of real government extant. As near as I can tell from reading, the problem is much like that which we had with the Diem regime in Vietnam.

    Lots of interesting reading.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/series/afghanistan-the-war-logs The article about the backstory is informative...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/asia/26keating.html?_r=1 This is reminiscent of the French at Dien Ben Phu...
     
  21. Queso macrumors G4

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    Mar 4, 2006
    #21
    NATO did not mess up Afghanistan. I don't know your age, but maybe you don't remember the arse-kicking the Soviet Union took attempting to externally impose order on that country.

    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” - George Santayana
     
  22. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    Oct 9, 2006
    #22

    Well then you still have an issue of the US/NATO came in and filled a power void left there. To me that means we assumed control over it and it is now our issue. Once it became our issue we can not just leave a massive power void.

    Problem with power voids is when the person or party that fills sudden voids is normally never that good and very cruel. The people are never given a far chance to take control and fill the void. It has to transition from US to the Afghans to control that power.
     
  23. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #23
    The problem does appear very similar.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/series/afghanistan-the-war-logs The article about the backstory is informative...

    You might also want to take a look at Sebastian Junger's "War" which covers similar battles in the Korengal valley.


    ...

    In many ways, the issues defined by these documents are fairly well known, as Fred Kaplan notes, by anyone who has been reading either the Guardian reports or other newspapers' coverage of Afghanistan. Civilian casualties have been rife, the Afghani government is corrupt and incompetent, and the insurgency has been gathering power and tactical acumen. Whatever momentum we had in 2002 was burned away by 2008 and thus we're engaged in a deep-set conflict with the influence of Pakistan and Iran hurting our effort. NATO troops have often failed to either secure their respective areas or have, in the case of the Polish troops who fired on a wedding party, actually been detrimental.

    Of course, the horrible reality is, should we leave the Taliban, supported by the ISI, will retake the country creating consequences that, I think, will have more significant consequences than the fall of South Vietnam.
     
  24. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #24
    Probably fair. The North Vietnamese were just trying to unite their country.
     
  25. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #25
    Good call, Cave Man.
     

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