A caution to people viewing the 2010 27" iMac as a Boot Camp gaming platform...

Discussion in 'iMac' started by dh2005, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. dh2005 macrumors 6502a

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    Jan 25, 2010
    #1
    Hey folks,

    I bought an iMac last week as an all-round computer, and it's a good one. No doubt. But for those of you intending to use Boot Camp for gaming (through Steam, in my case), a word of caution:

    I've been having performance problems (some of them insurmountable) with several games that I've bought from Steam. These games worked fine on the 2009 Mini that my new computer replaced, using the exact same OS, so I contacted AMD to ask whether there were any known issues with their current drivers for the Mobility 5850. Here is the reply that I received:



    Thank you for the response. However we no longer manufacture the graphics card. We only provide the Graphics chip to our partners such as (Apple, Visontek, Diamond and Sapphire).

    Apple and their partners manufacture the graphics cards and write the Video Card BIOS and Video Card BIOS which is offered only through OSX updates.

    For further information please contact Apple.




    When the day comes that I'm relying on Apple to make a graphics card work in Windows, I know I'm in trouble...! Anyway, the bottom line is that AMD appear to have washed their hands of this graphics card. Certainly, they're not remotely interested in offering technical support for it.

    I'm gonna get back to AMD now and appeal to their sense of corporate humanity. Wish me luck.
     
  2. dh2005 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Jan 25, 2010
    #3
    I know about that, mate. But only two of the games that I own are available on the Mac side of Steam. In future, I'm hoping to be able to go completely OS X.

    But, for the time being...
     
  3. Aegelward macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #4
    Sounds like whoever replied might not have understood your question.

    I'm assuming that rather than drivers they thought you were asking about the firmware.

    You can use the AMD graphics drivers just fine, they support the card.

    Just Apple create firmware updates for it.
     
  4. TMRaven macrumors 68020

    TMRaven

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    Nov 5, 2009
    #5
    AMD's still developing drivers that incorporate mobility 5800 series. No need to worry.
     
  5. leman macrumors 604

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    Oct 14, 2008
    #6

    They did not understand your question correctly. They thought you were asking about the Mac OS X drivers - these are indeed provided by Apple. The windows drivers work just fine for Boot Camp. You can easily verify it by downloading latest drivers of AMD website and installing them.
     
  6. elistan macrumors 6502a

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    Jun 30, 2007
    Location:
    Denver/Boulder, CO
    #7
    In fact, AMD has released just today (Oct 22) new display drivers for the HD series cards. (At least for 32-bit Windows 7. 64-bit W7 page isn't loading for me right now.)

    http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/Pages/radeon_win7-32.aspx

    Regarding AMD's response to your question - the email response might have talked about BIOS, but what they said also applies to Mobility *drivers*. If you go to their website and search for Mobility card drivers, you'll get this page http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/737-28041SupportforATIMobility.aspx that says to go to the manufacturer for drivers instead. Of course, their driver packages for desktop units specifically mention in the release notes support for Mobility units (albeit possibly with problems)... *shrug*
     
  7. DLary macrumors member

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    Oct 21, 2005
    #8
    I tried loading the latest ATi drivers on my windows 7 64 bootcamp partition. The installer completes but does not load the new drivers.
     
  8. APtalent macrumors regular

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    Jun 5, 2010
    #9
    That's odd because I running Fallout New Vegas perfectly via bootcamp on my ATI 4850 HD video card.
     
  9. jinx5000 macrumors member

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    Sep 13, 2010
    #10
    What settings r u running em on? what resoultion? and how's the gameplay/FPS?

    im thinking about getting the game but wanna know how it'll play on my 27" i5
     
  10. TMRaven macrumors 68020

    TMRaven

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    Nov 5, 2009
    #11
    You experiencing any severe lag with native resolution, ultra settings and AA enabled, APtalent? I had to take off AA just for that little quirk, and it's a little disappointing.
     
  11. Phil1987 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    #12
    Hello, first time poster.

    Anyway I'm having the same problem I've installed the boot camp drivers and everything nice and fine. I check windows rating and it gives the 5750 a 1.0 rating and not even capable of aero. The driver is not even being installed just check your ATI technologies folder as its empty.

    If anyone knows any tricks to install the driver then please tell.
     
  12. TMRaven macrumors 68020

    TMRaven

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    Nov 5, 2009
    #13
    Have you gone to ATI's site then downloaded and installed the mobility drivers off their site?
     
  13. Phil1987 macrumors newbie

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    Oct 22, 2010
    #14
    I've installed them, but i forgot to reboot. :rolleyes: Its working now.
     
  14. dh2005 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Jan 25, 2010
    #15
    Hello folks,

    Thanks for the discussion in my absence; but the replies that I've received from AMD and Steam over the weekend worry me.


    Here is what I asked AMD in response to this:


    Hello again,

    Thank you for your reply.

    I understand the position that you are in. However, if at
    all possible, I would really appreciate you answering one
    question for me:

    You don't need to spend lots of time giving me a detailed
    answer. Please, just a simple "yes" or "no". Will you be
    releasing updates to this driver for Windows users in
    future?

    Thank you again.



    And here is AMD's reply:

    Thank you for the response. Yes, we will continue providing drivers for the HD 5850 mobility for Windows 7. However if you are using Windows 7 boot camp version for the Mac drivers are unavailable.

    Best regards,

    AMD Global Customer Care




    Is it just me, or are they suggesting that Boot Camp users specifically aren't allowed new Windows drivers?



    And then there's this, from Steam:

    (I asked them for technical support because Quake III, Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Knights of the Old Republic weren't working. They asked what my hardware/OS profile was, and I told them I was running Windows 7 on an iMac through Boot Camp).


    Hello,

    Thank you for contacting Steam Support.

    We are unable to provide support for running the Windows version of Steam on a Mac, even when using Boot Camp.

    Please use the native Mac version of Steam and Mac supported Steam games on Mac OSX only.

    We apologize for the inconvenience.




    So, then. A wall of silence. Not because of my games or my OS, but because I'm using a Mac.

    Seriously, guys. What's going on, here? Has Apple told Steam and AMD not to provide us with any help whatsoever with Windows-related graphics issues? Whatever the cause of this unhappy symmetry, it's apparently official that we are second-class citizens in the eyes of both AMD and Steam. We don't matter. Feel free to vote with your feet.

    http://www.nvidia.co.uk/page/home.html

    http://www.direct2drive.co.uk/



    (... and, just so you know; Steam received an extremely shirty response to that e-mail. I'll post it, along with the reply, if I get anywhere).
     
  15. TMRaven macrumors 68020

    TMRaven

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    Nov 5, 2009
    #16
    I really don't know about that. Windows is windows.
     
  16. dh2005 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Jan 25, 2010
    #17
    Well, yeah. So why are AMD and Steam saying that they aren't interested in helping Mac users running Windows through Boot Camp? As you say, Windows is Windows. The advice will be substantially the same as the advice they would give to a PC user.

    It must be a contractual/monetary issue. There's no technological reason why they can't help me. Maybe Apple haven't paid them to offer Mac users advice on anything other than OS X, so they're not willing to.

    [shrug]

    I've got to say, at least AMD have been consistent. Steam, on the other hand, are a bunch of scumbags. They were willing to help me until I told them that I was running a Mac - at which point, they completely shut down on me.
     
  17. jaw04005 macrumors 601

    jaw04005

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Location:
    AR
    #18
    All those e-mails are telling you is AMD and Steam are not going to troubleshoot Boot Camp problems. That's it. Boot Camp is a tech support nightmare as you have to train someone to use both Mac OS X and Windows. It makes sense that AMD and Steam wouldn't want to deal with both.

    Apple releases periodic hardware driver updates for Boot Camp. If you don't want to use those, use the latest from each manufacturer's Web site. The only consequence is Apple will no longer help you if you call with Boot Camp problems (but they barely helped with the Windows side anyway).
     
  18. TMRaven macrumors 68020

    TMRaven

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    #19
    As I said. Windows is windows. You get to install the whole thing on its own partition with the mac. I somehow doubt they can specifically cease to make drivers for "windows: bootcamp version." There's just windows. Maybe I don't know anything and apple has somehow changed that, I dunno.

    Either way, AMD released their 10.10 mobility catalyst drivers on the 22nd of this month, and they worked for windows on my iMac.
     
  19. dh2005 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    #20
    jaw04005;

    Thanks for the reply. I'm pleased to hear that Apple issue hardware updates for Boot Camp.

    I really don't see that Boot Camp is any kind of a "tech support nightmare". I've asked them direct questions about Windows and, to my mind, there's no reason at all why they can't answer them. If me using Boot Camp complicates the issue, they can simply tell me that, can't they? How would it injure them to say to me, "however, because you're using Boot Camp, your experience may vary". Simply saying, "you're using a Mac...? Bye", isn't good enough.
     
  20. dh2005 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    #21
    Yes, but I think 10.10 is for the 4850 and the 4870, so I'd fully expect them to work for your machine.


    Does anyone know how dramatically drivers vary between hardwares? Might 10.10 work for my Mobility 5850, or will the software be radically different and just screw everything up?
     
  21. Tonsko macrumors 6502

    Tonsko

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    #22
    When you run bootcamp, you're effectively running windows natively. So why don't you just download the windows drivers, and forget about OSX for the time you're running W7. OSX doesn't appear in the equation. Or have I missed the point?

    Also, you mention Mobility 5850...the 2010 27" iMac uses an HD 5670 doesn't it?
     
  22. dh2005 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    #23
    You've not missed the point at all, mate. That's what I've done. The most up-to-date software on the AMD website expressly for the Mobility 5850 is Catalyst 10.8, and I downloaded that.

    However, I have been getting graphical errors with certain Steam games in Windows 7, and this has led me to contact both Steam and AMD to ask for advice. AMD's reply is, "if you want new drivers, talk to Apple", and Steam's reply is, "use Steam for OS X".


    And with regard to the hardware; the iMac that I have features, Apple are calling, the HD 5750. But it isn't. There's an enormous thread in the iMac forum that's uncovered the true identity of the GPU as a Mobility 5850.
     
  23. TMRaven macrumors 68020

    TMRaven

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    #24
    When AMD releases the drivers, they usually encompass their whole gpu lineup for the radeons. Furthermore, if AMD or Steam were to stop developing for windows bootcamp, it'd be an issue moreso with apple and not the specific gpus. Go to amd's site and check out 10.10 for your mobility 5850!


    2010 27" iMacs use mobility 5730 and mobility 5850, dubbed 5670 and 5750.
     
  24. dh2005 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Jan 25, 2010
    #25
    Jesus... it was that simple?!

    In my defence, the reason I didn't look for 10.10 was because 10.9 was not available for the Mobility 5850. I looked, last week. This, coupled with AMD's stonewalling led me to conclude that they were no longer releasing updates for it.

    Sorry, dude.
     

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