A Full Declaration of War on the Islamic State

Merkava_4

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Sep 4, 2010
557
49
California
It's time to go to war with these people. I watched the Vice News Video and it was depressing seeing how the Islamic State (formerly ISIS) oppresses the people in Syria with their insane strict Sharia law. I'd like to see how you hardcore Liberals and Atheists would adjust to that! I tell you what: if they come over here and try to take over this country, I'm not going to cooperate with these lunatics; they'll have to kill me.
 

chown33

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2009
8,373
4,362
Pumpkindale
It's time to go to war with these people. I watched the Vice News Video and it was depressing seeing how the Islamic State (formerly ISIS) oppresses the people in Syria with their insane strict Sharia law. I'd like to see how you hardcore Liberals and Atheists would adjust to that! I tell you what: if they come over here and try to take over this country, I'm not going to cooperate with these lunatics; they'll have to kill me.
That's a pretty big "if".

Just sayin'.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
Of course you disagree; you didn't watch the video.
And I don't plan to.

What do you expect to happen if we send troops into Syria and Iraq?

How is another layer of militarized force and violence going to solve the problem?
 

Merkava_4

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Sep 4, 2010
557
49
California
I don't think you people are taking this seriously enough. This is the worse threat to our free way of life since the Nazis walked the earth. Those fanatics are not going to stop and just Syria and Iraq, they want to take over the whole world and make it one big Islamic State. If you don't believe me, watch the video.
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
4,040
65
Plymouth, MN
This is the worse threat to our free way of life since the Nazis walked the earth.
The Nazis in their peak were able to take over whole countries and fight wars over massive areas of land, sea, and air. They were a massive threat. Of course I find comparing anything to the Nazi’s isn’t exactly a good idea

ISIS is a small terrorist group in comparison. They talk big. All terrible groups talk big. They need to be dealt with, but their level of threat isn’t anywhere near as bad as other threats out there that can be worse.
 

Moyank24

macrumors 601
Aug 31, 2009
4,334
2,421
in a New York State of mind
I don't think you people are taking this seriously enough. This is the worse threat to our free way of life since the Nazis walked the earth. Those fanatics are not going to stop and just Syria and Iraq, they want to take over the whole world and make it one big Islamic State. If you don't believe me, watch the video.
And for all the Nazis were able to accomplish they still never made it over here.

What makes you think ISIS would? A few random terrorist attacks? Maybe. But a full out air, land, and sea attack? They wouldn't stand a chance.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors 604
Oct 27, 2009
7,433
8,606
The fact that they are wasting recruited westerners from the US, UK, and etc on domestic battle, makes me think that they are much more interested in domestic control than terrorism against us. At least that's how things seem at the moment.
 

vrDrew

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2010
1,317
11,838
Midlife, Midwest
This is the worse threat to our free way of life since the Nazis walked the earth
Uh, no. Not even close.

ISIL is nothing of a threat anywhere outside of a fairly small, specific area of Iraq and Syria. And of limited danger there.

Do you really think ISIL's brand of lunacy has traction in, for example, Turkey or Tunisia - let alone France or the UK?

Over-reaction from poorly educated Westerners is exactly what those people want. Don't give it to them. And let the Iraqis solve the problem on their own.

The United States has gone to war war in Iraq twice in the last couple of decades, without solving the problems there.

What makes you think a third time will be any different?
 

zin

macrumors 6502
May 5, 2010
488
6,471
United Kingdom
I'm a 'hardcore liberal' and I agree with you.

For the people citing the Iraq War last decade, just remember that there was no clear objective for that mission. That invasion was ordered based on false information and the entire thing was a shambles. First it was WMD, then it was Saddam Hussein, then it was 'stability', and finally Bush admitting that the objective was 'regime change'.

Compare it to this situation. There is one enemy. They have absolutely no intention of negotiating. They intend to continue their advance into sovereign territory, torturing and murdering innocent people who get in their way, all with blatant disregard for international law and conventions.

American airstrikes have failed in their objectives. ISIS are destabilising the already-fragile Middle East and have stated they have no intention of stopping with that region. It is time to remove this threat to the international community by use of military force on the ground, in the air, and from the oceans.
 

jav6454

macrumors P6
Nov 14, 2007
16,864
1,480
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
I don't think you people are taking this seriously enough. This is the worse threat to our free way of life since the Nazis walked the earth. Those fanatics are not going to stop and just Syria and Iraq, they want to take over the whole world and make it one big Islamic State. If you don't believe me, watch the video.
Hilarious. Catholics want the entire world to be catholic. Evangelicals, Baptists, Mormons... everyone wants the world to be their religion.

Do you think Muslims/Islamic religions don't want the same? However, since this is the Islam state we are talking about they must surely be terrorists right?:rolleyes:
 

zin

macrumors 6502
May 5, 2010
488
6,471
United Kingdom
Hilarious. Catholics want the entire world to be catholic. Evangelicals, Baptists, Mormons... everyone wants the world to be their religion.

Do you think Muslims/Islamic religions don't want the same? However, since this is the Islam state we are talking about they must surely be terrorists right?:rolleyes:
Well they have sort of systematically murdered and tortured thousands of innocent people, and threatened and invaded their way into territory that is not theirs.

Does that not constitute terroristic activity?
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
Well they have sort of systematically murdered and tortured thousands of innocent people, and threatened and invaded their way into territory that is not theirs.

Does that not constitute terroristic activity?
No. It constitutes civil war.
 

Moyank24

macrumors 601
Aug 31, 2009
4,334
2,421
in a New York State of mind
I'm a 'hardcore liberal' and I agree with you.

For the people citing the Iraq War last decade, just remember that there was no clear objective for that mission. That invasion was ordered based on false information and the entire thing was a shambles. First it was WMD, then it was Saddam Hussein, then it was 'stability', and finally Bush admitting that the objective was 'regime change'.

Compare it to this situation. There is one enemy. They have absolutely no intention of negotiating. They intend to continue their advance into sovereign territory, torturing and murdering innocent people who get in their way, all with blatant disregard for international law and conventions.

American airstrikes have failed in their objectives. ISIS are destabilising the already-fragile Middle East and have stated they have no intention of stopping with that region. It is time to remove this threat to the international community by use of military force on the ground, in the air, and from the oceans.
Why does it have to be the US? Why does it always have to be the US? The OP is arguing that if we don't, somehow ISIS will make there way over to the US and take us over.

That is never going to happen. Ever.

We've wasted lives, time, and a whole bunch of money over the last 2 decades and here we are again. Maybe it's time for some other country to take a shot.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
I somewhat agree with Zin on this. ISIS is hardly a direct threat to us right now, but they are a supremely violent, destabilizing agent in an already precariously balanced region of the world. If left to run amok, they could cause us tons of potential problems 10-20 years down the road.

That said, I don't believe another full scale Iraq style invasion is the way to go. We don't need another shock and awe campaign. We don't need to flex our military might in front of the world. It's ineffective against an enemy that doesn't define it's presence with fronts and positions, and ultimately does nothing to deter future action against us.

We have our highly trained special forces and the CIA for just such an enemy. It's time we used them to full effect. It won't look good on TV, and it won't net us any big victories we can show off to the world, but they will get the job done.

edit: I should add that we are more or less cleaning up a problem we created ourselves. Meddling in the middle east tends to do that. This is why we need to be subtle, and try not to stir up the hornets nest any more than we already have.
 

steve knight

macrumors 68030
Jan 28, 2009
2,596
6,958
we can't fix it. we caused it for the most part. the middle east has to learn to solve it's own problems or it is always going to be a victim of terrorists.
 

jav6454

macrumors P6
Nov 14, 2007
16,864
1,480
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
Well they have sort of systematically murdered and tortured thousands of innocent people, and threatened and invaded their way into territory that is not theirs.

Does that not constitute terroristic activity?
So the Crusades (yes even if its long ago, it still counts) never happened then?
 

zin

macrumors 6502
May 5, 2010
488
6,471
United Kingdom
No. It constitutes civil war.
Well, according to the dictionary:

terrorism
noun
the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
In addition, the United States Government defines international terrorism:

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

  • Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.
This is not a civil war. This conflict spans across multiple countries that have one common enemy. Perhaps it was an internal conflict in the early days, but as soon as IS decided to make it an international issue it ceased being a civil war.

They have threatened and tried to coerce other countries to submit to their demands. They have tried to coerce innocent civilians to join their group or face death. They even tried to coerce the U.S. by murdering its journalists. Their outcome is purely political; they want a to establish a theocratic state that they, and only they, control at the expense of innocent people. This is terrorism.

Why does it have to be the US? Why does it always have to be the US? The OP is arguing that if we don't, somehow ISIS will make there way over to the US and take us over.

That is never going to happen. Ever.

We've wasted lives, time, and a whole bunch of money over the last 2 decades and here we are again. Maybe it's time for some other country to take a shot.
I never said I only wanted the U.S. to intervene. However, there are only a handful of countries with the military resources to intervene in something like this. I would support a coalition with the U.S. and other countries.
 

bradl

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2008
4,006
11,823
I don't think you people are taking this seriously enough. This is the worse threat to our free way of life since the Nazis walked the earth. Those fanatics are not going to stop and just Syria and Iraq, they want to take over the whole world and make it one big Islamic State. If you don't believe me, watch the video.
First off, you may want to look at our own history when it comes to threatening free ways of life. Cases in point: Louisiana Purchase, Andrew Jackson, Trail of Tears, and Christopher Columbus. And you are worried about this small fanatical sect of a religion that is basically a franchise of Al Qaeda.

No offense to our fellow poms in the forum, but the last group to cross the sea and attack us was the Japanese in 1941, and you can call that 'barely', as Hawaii wasn't a state back then, followed by the British in 1812. that's 73 years, followed by 202. So unless IS somehow spends the time and money to build/buy a fleet of ships or fighter jets, as well as spend the time learning how to use them, we sure as hell don't have to worry about them coming across the sea or air and attacking us.

Keep in mind that those involved in 9/11 were already here, and really do not constitute an invading force as you are making this out to be. In fact, while IS is serious, what you are ranting about is mainly FUD.

BL.