A message from a former Romney supporter

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by P-Worm, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. P-Worm macrumors 68020


    Jul 16, 2002
    Salt Lake City, UT
    I grew up in Salt Lake City. I have been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (mormons) my whole life. I served an LDS mission in London and I absolutely love the Church.

    When the Olympics came to Salt Lake City in 2002, there was a lot of scandal and controversy leading up to The Games. I remember how embarrassed I was to be a citizen of the community involved in bribes and poor control over The Games. When Mitt Romney came in, he truly changed things around. Not only were budgets being tightened up, but the perception of the Olympics changed dramatically. Mitt Romney took a bad situation and turned Salt Lake City into a great place to hold the Winter Olympics. I remember how great it felt to have the whole world in the city I grew up in and no longer feeling the shame that came with how we got the world to come here.

    During the 2008 presidential primaries I wanted Mitt Romney to win the Republican nomination and I was excited to vote for him in the general election if he did win the nomination. Not only did I like Mitt Romney for being a member of the faith that I continue to love and hold close to my heart, but I hoped that Romney's experience with fixing the 2002 Winter Olympics could be translated to helping the scary state our economy was in.

    At the time, I was starting my senior year of college at the University of Utah and was months away from receiving my Bachelor's in Mechanical Engineering with a specialization in robotics. I knew people that had just graduated with engineering degrees and a good 3/4 of them could not find a place of employment. I was worried about where I stood in the world. Engineering was supposed to be a field that opened the doors to solid job opportunities and here I was observing some very bright people I knew finding no place to work.

    Leading up to the 2008 general election, the economy continued to sour. I began reading in to the cause of the financial collapse and came to the conclusion that the unregulated credit default swap market led to rampant dishonesty which led to a global collapse. I was angry and wanted regulation to be put back in place to ensure that such events would not occur in the future. Between John McCain and Barack Obama, it was easy to decide which candidate would lead me closer to this future I hoped in.

    Since I had speant two years in England, I was able to experience Britain's wonderful NHS system first hand. Despite the fact that I was an American and in the country with a visa, I was able to receive health care when I needed it at no cost to myself. I was incredibly grateful for the excellent care that I received and the charitable manor in which it was given to me. When Barack Obama pushed for health care reform after being elected I listened to NPR every single morning hoping that some kind of single payer or universal health care system would be pushed into the discussion. Imagine my disappointment when the only thing that materialized from much needed health care reform was the Affordable Care Act. I wanted more and I still think we need more.

    I began to see Barack Obama as spineless. With so much hope and support in both the House and the Senate, why didn't he push the reform that was needed? Why did the Republicans get so much of what they wanted? Where was the passionate Barack Obama I was hoping for that campaigned witch such intensity. The President of the United States seemed like a different man than was running for the office just months before. When 2010 rolled around and a slew of quasi libertarian nutcases formed the tea party and got elected into public office, I began to lose hope in the future of the United States of America. Lack of regulation led to our financial collapse and doubling down wasn't going to fix it. Then the debt ceiling debate happened.

    I had never sat and watched C-SPAN before in my life, but my worry that members of congress was willing to put a gun to the head of the United States economy and demand that a ransom be payed had me glued to this boring network 24 hours a day. How could elected officials act like this? How could people in congress think that refusing to pay our bills - money that was already speant - by a good idea. This was a new breed of polotics that frightened me to death. I was still disillusioned with President Obama and I thought that maybe a reasonable Republican could work with the tea party so that we would no longer put ourselves on the brink of collapse again. Mitt Romney was running for president again, and I hoped he could fix this country like he fixed the Olympics.

    I used to think Mitt Romney was a reasonable guy. Many of the things he did in Massachusettes impressed me and I felt like he could show the republican party that compromising was a good thing. As the primary drew on, however, I quickly began to realize that the only compromising that was going to happen was with Mitt Romney trying to do and say anything to appease the Republican base. This was not the man I thought he was and despite my strong ties to him through our faith, I just could not in good conscience blindly support him. I felt like the upcoming election was a choice between a two-faced liar and a man that didn't rise to the occasion when he had the opportunity to. With the hope of regulation in the financial markets still in my mind I decided to reluctantly support Obama, but I wasn't enthusiastic about it.

    My wife (a very strong Obama supporter) convinced me to canvas with her in Grand Junction, CO (about a 5 hour drive) with her to help with the Obama campaign efforts. I knocked doors and told people about my hope for a stronger economy and had a fair amount of success. I met some wonderful people and had a great time interacting with volunteers for the campaign in Colorado. The volunteers informed us that President Obama was going to visit Grand Junction on August 8 and that they had two extra tickets so that we could return to Grand Junction and listen to him speek.

    Last night I got back from that speech and I can say with all of my heart that I support President Barack Obama. Being there to see him in person helped me realize that he is genuine and that he is truly looking out for people like myself. He wants to help people get an education. He wants to chip away at our terrible health care system. He wants bolster the middle class and make a strong economy for all of us. President Barack Obama truly cares about the American people and hearing him in person made that fact speak directly to my soul.

    I once believed in Mitt Romney, but now I am a full supporter of our president. I will continue to volunteer for his re-election and pray that we have him for four more years. I believe in Barack Obama.

  2. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Feb 14, 2004
    OBJECTIVE reality
    Nice of you to take the time to express your feelings at such length.

    I think what you're seeing in Romney is something a lot of people saw four years ago in John McCain. Moderates kind of liked him, and liberals didn't actively dislike him. But the necessities of the presidential campaign required both men to pander to their base...and that base has moved radicallly to the right.

    So nowadays whether a Republican presidential candidate actually believes all the crazy stuff he says, I don't care -- he's representing the party and its platform, and the party excludes people like me. Like most of us, actually.

    I don't think Obama is a saint, but I do think the political realities force him to act in the opposite way of Romney. Whereas Mitt is trying to amp up the radical rightist rhetoric to satisfy his clan, Obama keeps trying to tone down anything that sounds "too" leftist.

    Even so, he's still a much, much better choice than Mitt. I can tell that Obama sees the world clearly. A lot of Republicans (though not all) live in an alternate reality where the rules of economics and science work in different and frightening ways. And as long as Romney's going to be the standard bearer for that group, he's not getting my vote.
  3. mcrain macrumors 68000


    Feb 8, 2002
    After work the other night, a 60-70 year old white guy was saying something about socialists and how they were trying to make Romney release his tax returns. I was nearby and I said the tax returns are commonly released by all presidential candidates. He started yelling at me about how I don't know anything, Obama won't release his college records, and basically made a giant scene.

    That's the kind of voter that Romney has had to satisfy in order to be the Republican nominee. That's why people like me, who used to respect guys like McCain and Romney, don't anymore.
  4. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    Well written and heartfelt. Thanks for sharing.

    When it comes to voting for state and national offices, I really don't care who the candidate is, I'm voting for the policies they are likely to champion. It doesn't matter how nice or sincere the candidate is, the only thing that matters is who is going to support the measures I support and lead the country in the direction I believe it should go.
  5. astrorider macrumors 6502

    Sep 25, 2008
    You're the first McCain voter I've heard say they're voting for Obama this time around. On the other hand, I've heard many Obama voters from 2008 say they're voting against Obama this time around (assuming they'll vote Romney). Sure it's anecdotal, but assuming McCain voters go Romney in 2012, it won't take much chipping away at Obama's 53% of the popular vote for Romney to win.
  6. leekohler macrumors G5


    Dec 22, 2004
    Chicago, Illinois
    And if Romney wins, it will be more of the same policies that got us in this hole in the first place. What's left of the middle class will disappear.
  7. thekev macrumors 604


    Aug 5, 2010
    Don't torment the elderly :p. What if he went into cardiac arrest?
  8. NT1440 macrumors G4


    May 18, 2008
    Seeing as its all the Bush advisors behind Romney (the ones that aren't in place in the current Obama military) I'd wager that the new administration would be Bush 2 on steroids. A puppet who does all the goofy things for the press while a reworking of the world via military power goes on in the background.

    Obama is already a continuation, tempered as it may be, of Cheney's overall plan simply via infrastructural momentum and by matter of will. I'm not looking forward to either candidates next term of foreign policy but I feel that Obama says no to things he disagrees with, while Romney will just be a yessman for everything.

    Truly a contest between a turd sandwich and a giant douche, foreign policy wise.

    Ameriiiiiiiica. :(
  9. AhmedFaisal Guest

    Wife will vote Obama, of course. We're just not very happy with how he communicates and honestly one of the big things that pisses us off is the 250k cutoff he is making. Between my wife and I we are servicing about 250k in student loans, we live in New Jersey close to New York and if you want to live in a halfway safe neighborhood that is within a reasonable distance to both my wife's and my workplace so that's not going to be cheap and yes, we are so bold to want to eat expensive organic food and not wallmart crap. We own 1 car, a Volvo, carpool to work and conserve energy and all that and our basic living expenses eat up one salary, servicing our debt the other one. We will be very close to or even exceed the 250k barrier this year with bonuses considered but we are not rich by any means. We actually would like to be able to pay off our loans in the next 2 years so we can have a kid and one of us can stop working. If we lose the Bush tax cut that's going to be very difficult to do. Matt Damon had it right, 250k is too low, make it 1M and it's a lot more reasonable.
  10. rdowns macrumors Penryn


    Jul 11, 2003

    Boo hoo. You do realize that you will only pay 3 or 4% more in taxes only on the amount earned OVER $250,000.
  11. AhmedFaisal, Aug 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2012

    AhmedFaisal Guest

    So? You are not getting the point. You are hitting the people you say you want to protect, among others young professionals just starting out and yes, the upper middle class. I get the concept that the affluent should pay more, but that should be the people that have arrived financially and who actually have a significant surplus each month not the people who are just starting out. You are being blinded by ideology. In your desire to go after people of Romney's wealth level you are willing to throw people under the bus who are not even remotely close to the aggrandizing lifestyle you are so critical of. Every dollar my wife and I earn gets circled back into the economy either because of paying loans or making expenses. We have zero savings right now, ok? We don't travel, we don't drive fancy cars, we don't have lavish parties. What did we ever do to you to earn that level of hate.
  12. niuniu macrumors 68020


    Mar 29, 2009
    A man of the people. The right sort of people.
    Sig worthy :p
  13. Gelfin macrumors 68020


    Sep 18, 2001
    Denver, CO
    No, really, you're the one who isn't getting the point. If you're just barely bringing home $250,000 with bonuses, you almost certainly own a home, your student loan interest is deductible, and your AGI isn't going to be close to $250,000. If your AGI is $250,000, then counting all the things you can deduct, you're actually making substantially more.

    And then, even so, you're still ignoring the exact point to which you were responding: If you're just barely over $250,000 in adjusted gross income, then your taxes are negligibly different from what they would be if there were no higher bracket at all. Make $260,000? The higher bracket is going to cost you all of $300 per year. Twenty-five bucks a month. That's how brackets work. If you made another $250,000 in adjusted gross income, on top of what you make now (surely enough additional income to pay off all your student loans in one shot), then your total tax burden would only go up by around $7500 per year due to the existence of that bracket. You could afford it, and that's the point.

    I might be persuaded to stump for another, higher bracket at a million, but that's another issue. $250,000 is a fine threshold for asking people to kick in a smidgen more.

    That's what it's come down to: the Republican Party has "ideological purity"ed itself into irrelevance. You cannot secure the Republican nomination without alienating a lot of sensible people who would be sympathetic to simple conservatism if it could be had without all the crazy.

    I'm half-inclined to say this serves a valuable service in that it unmasks candidates like Romney whose whole sole talent is pandering to the audience in front of him. I like the idea that two-faced candidates could have been, and no doubt were, quite successful in the past, but nowadays ubiquitous coverage makes it all but impossible to tell, say, management one thing and labor another.

    On the other hand, it's not so much a service as that only a two-faced candidate can run the gantlet of pandering to extremists in the primary, then even plausibly appealing ordinary, reasonable people in the election. Anyone with principles, in any direction, disqualifies himself early on. It's literally unwinnable, and the insane zealots have made it so. Call it a free market correction against a party gone mad.
  14. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    I agree. Politicians are more salesman than savior, yet salvation is their main product ... their big seller.
  15. AhmedFaisal, Aug 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2012

    AhmedFaisal Guest

    Deduct what exactly? We can't take the student loan deduction because our MAGI is over 150k. A house? We rent. We live in Northern New Jersey near New York City, We couldn't afford to buy a decent apartment, let alone a house and pay interest on a mortgage plus the property tax with the salaries we make unless we were willing to commute more than 1 hour one way. We work 11-12 hours each day. We'd like to actually reach retirement age. And why do it anyways, to pile on even more debt and cripple ourselves completely and give up any modicum of freedom we have if our employers decides to be complete jackasses? We'd be trapped here. So yeah, 300$ would go a long way, that's 300$ we can use to pay down the principle of our loans more. Our loans are on average between 6-7% interest and they are all of them on variable rates. So interest alone is 1500$ a month now add on another 2500$ in principle payback for the minimum payment. Add another 3200$ a month for apartment, utilities and the car loan that's 7.200$ out the door and that's without gas and food. Yeah, we are super rich.
  16. P-Worm thread starter macrumors 68020


    Jul 16, 2002
    Salt Lake City, UT
    I would love to have your "problem" of making over $260,000/year.

  17. Gelfin macrumors 68020


    Sep 18, 2001
    Denver, CO
    It sounds a lot like you need to take up your situation with a competent financial guy rather than a politician.
  18. fox10078 macrumors 6502


    Nov 6, 2009
    I voted for McCain, but have become so disgusted with the games the right have been playing that I'm almost to a point of never voting republican again. I will be voting for Obama as his policies have directly helped me.
  19. AhmedFaisal Guest

    To do what exactly? There is nothing to deduct when you are DINK over a certain amount but not making enough money to invest. What's a financial guy going to do, charge 600$ an hour and tell us to buy a house, no thank you, we'd rather hang ourselves. Refinance the loans? Guess what, banks just LOVE doing that with private student loans. Move to a ******** place, no thank you, we prefer not to get mugged, broken into or our car vandalized. We already carpool, drive a fuel efficient car, rarely eat out and conserve energy, gas and water where possible. When we leave the apartment in the morning we cut all the breakers except for the one for the fridge and we only turn on the AC at night for an hour to cool the place down a bit. There is literally nothing left to cut. We don't have cable TV, only basic phone service and we both don't have private cellphones and we pay off our credit cards each month. The only luxury we afford ourselves is cable internet, an occasional movie on iTunes and a dinner every once in a while at the Cheesecake Factory. What's left, not buy food at the local Organic Store but at Wallmart? Again, we'd rather hang ourselves.
  20. LethalWolfe macrumors G3


    Jan 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Great post. Sorry this thread is getting hijacked.

    If you are struggling on a household income of $250k something is majorly wrong. The median household income in NJ is around $68k. I, and many people I know, live and thrive in Los Angeles w/household incomes less than yours. Does someone have a drug or gambling habit that they aren't owning up to? ;)
  21. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    This is why I don't envy the "rich".

    Most of us live beyond our means regardless of how much we make.

    Each of us is an example of excess.
  22. AhmedFaisal Guest

    Then take on 120k in student loans, get a graduate degree in an area that pays well and work your ass off. I graduated 4 years ago and haven't had a decent vacation since then and work 11-12 hour days plus weekends. Out of the lousy 7 annual corp holidays in the last 4 years I got to take about 2 per year because I have to travel for business for most of them. And by travel means get in coach, work, get out coach. No cushy junkets for people at my pay grade. That's reserved for the Romneys of the world. Oh and I just started making 6 figures. I started out at 60k when I graduated.
  23. vega07 macrumors 65816

    Aug 7, 2006
    It really sounds you need some help managing your money. There is no need to pay off all your loans in 2 years. Of course you can do that, and it sounds like you are by the way you are living.

    Those who want to pay off $250k loans in two years need to know what they're getting themselves into. It sounds like you don't yet know.
  24. AhmedFaisal Guest

    I am not giving you my first answer, which would have gotten me banned. How much student loans do you have? Do you have kids? What other lovely deductions and credits do you get to take because of your low income?


    Sorry but I do not want to be a slave to the bank for the rest of my life, especially not on variable interest rate student loans that you can't default on but I don't want go get mugged or have a heart attack because of a 2 hour commute either. Sure, I could do the American thing, buy a house (more debt) have both of us working and waste money for daycare (more bleed) and risk getting completely wiped out if something happens to either me or my wife because oh yeah, thanks to the way Obama compromised to the GOP on Obamacare, our employers get away with only offering Health Savings accounts for benefits which aren't worth **** if you get really ill.
  25. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

    Oct 9, 2006
    Sorry but the fact that you are able to burn threw $7200 pretty much tells me that yeah you have money. Cry me a river. That would be a great problem to have.

    Your loans speak volumes. You could easily get a much better fixed rate. SO yet again go cry a river.

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