A thought I just had on liberal and conservative values

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by leekohler, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #1
    I am always happy when people decide to move to Chicago, especially young people. They are usually bright-eyed and ambitious and believe that they can achieve their dreams here.

    We Chicagoans always welcome these types with open arms. I met one such person tonight at my local watering hole-23 years old and his first night in the city as a resident (a cousin of a friend). He was thrilled to be here and anxious to get started on his future. The first thing we Chicagoans ask folks like this is- "What do you want to do?"

    Well, this guy was pretty focused, "I went to school for English, and I wanna write comedy." Well, he is in the right place for that. Given that he demonstrated a good sense of humor, we offered him all our connections in the theater and comedy communities. He was shocked. "What? I just came from Kansas City, nobody would do this for me there. They'd tell me I was stupid for dreaming. Why are you guys being like this?"

    Easy answer, because people in this city helped us when we were chasing our dreams too. We want everyone to be their best. If we can help out, we will.

    I had a nasty bruise from hockey and one of my friends commented on it. The new guy says, "Whoa, you play hockey? Wow. I would love to, but I can't skate."

    I said what all my hockey buddies told me when I started- "The only person who says you can't skate is you. No one is a natural skater. It's a learned skill. If you want to play, we'll help you learn to skate."

    He seemed shocked. "You're serious?" "Of course. No one will get down on you for being new. We'll help you as much as you need and nobody will ever be crappy to you while you're learning. We all went through it, and we all looked dumb at one point. It's a tough game, but you can learn it like we all did. But we will work you hard." His eyes lit up, "Dude, I'm there!"

    So we exchanged numbers and he is coming to a practice skate this weekend. I'm pretty sure he'll be hooked on the game.

    This is a universal theme in Chicago with regard to anything. If you want to do something and have passion, there is someone here who will help you get there, as long as you work hard along with the help. And yes, you're allowed multiple failures along the way. This is how we build strong businesses, by working together and learning together.

    These are strict Chicago values. It's why this town is so beautiful and the jewel of the midwest. Do we have problems? Sure we do, like any big city. But get anyone from any part of the country to come here, and they're amazed at what we have built. My friends who visit from NYC are always jealous.

    I love this town. Where I came from (Ohio) no one supported anyone. It was sink or swim. If you could not do something all by yourself, you were s*** on. If you weren't great at a sport, no one helped you get better, they left you in the dust and walked away. That attitude helps no one in any way. Ohio is going down the tubes. We're better when we are working together. I live by this philosophy and am glad I live in a place where others share it.

    Shouldn't this be what we all are working for?

    In my experience, conservatism works against these things and calls them "Socialism". I call it just being a decent human being.
     
  2. Queso macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    #2
    I wonder if the conservative areas of the US have developed along conservative lines due to their being traditionally more rural. With less other people around you it's necessary to become more independent of them entirely, and over time this independent character trait has become seen as a virtue. Meanwhile in the cities the greater requirement is that everyone must get along with each other in a relatively small space, so successful interdependence is recognised as the key character trait to possess since it benefits everyone.
     
  3. Andeavor macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    #3
    I don't think it's a matter of liberal or conservative views that decide whether someone will help you along the way, I believe it's the intention of the support you get.

    Liberal people often support people that are different because they believe that with diversity, you can reach more people and find a common cause. Conservatives on the other hand, are looking for like-minded people that value tradition and sameness, hence why they would prefer to support someone that can ensure their wellbeing.

    In any case, as long as you find the right people (which can be the hard part) you can get all the support you need, whether you're in Chicago, Kansas City or Ohio.
     
  4. Squadleader macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2010
    Location:
    Avalon Hill
    #4
    You can really relate this story to GOP vs Socialism VS Liberal agenda's...?? Perhaps there is a more simple approach, is it a gay watering hole...??
     
  5. Queso macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    #5
    Where does Lee mention the GOP? :confused:
     
  6. classicaliberal macrumors regular

    classicaliberal

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    #6
    Is it your suggestion is that liberals are far more giving/philanthropic/charitable than conservatives? My own experience is quite different, and I'm pretty sure I've read evidence to the contrary somewhere.

    If I had to make a guess, based on the tone of your post, is that you had some bad experiences growing up in your small town, then found your niche in the big city and now feel that it's better in every single way.

    Certainly an argument which carries some value, but far from definitive. Actually, my own life experience has provided me with several observations which refute your own quite directly. However, I would never suggest that those experiences define everyone else's or define an area generally.

    BTW, Chicago is a beautiful city... depending on where you go and who you meet. Like all major cities, it has some very serious/major problems. It's far from perfect as you stated.
     
  7. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Location:
    The World Inbetween
    #7
    However, sliding around on your arse is most definitely a natural skill. :D
     
  8. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #8
    Nowhere was the GOP or gay mentioned.

    Not at all. Being from Ohio, a very conservative state, and living there for 25 years in different places, I saw lots of negativity and "religion". Attitudes are very defeatist. The general tone seems to be be "Do things our way and that is the only way." If you in any way do not, you're better off leaving as you will have a very difficult time getting anything done. Everyone looks at you and says, "Who do you think you are?"

    In general, people there do not think that anything can get better, and rarely try to make things better. Mediocrity and conformity are almost worshipped, all wrapped in god and conservatism.

    Bad experience? That's an understatement. A soul-crushing experience is more like it. I still have family back there, and I have to visit from time to time. Every time I go back, all I hear from everyone is how this business just closed and this person just lost his job and everything is terrible and nothing will get better because nothing can be done about it, and it's all the fault of the liberals, when conservatives have been running the state for a very long time.

    Then all those memories of what it was like to live in that state come flooding back. And I have to remind myself that I escaped and I don't have to be a part of this defeatist garbage anymore- except, I do. We still live in the same country.


    I think you nailed it.
     
  9. DakotaGuy macrumors 68040

    DakotaGuy

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Location:
    South Dakota, USA
    #9
    I have found the way people treat each other and whether or not they are willing to help them out isn't really a conservative or liberal thing. I have lived in an area that is pretty light purple to red and I have always found people to be very friendly and helpful here. In fact politically I'd say most are pretty libertarian and live and let live types and the only reason why many are conservative when it comes to voting is because of taxes.

    Whenever I need something my neighbors are always there for me whether it is borrowing a ladder or shovel or checking on my place when I am gone. We don't discuss politics and I have no idea who belongs to what political party. That is the way it should be because I don't really think it is right to judge people based solely on their political preference.

    In my lifetime the best support I have ever had from others is in the military. There is something about the uniform that brings us together and for the most part each of us wants the other to succeed.
     
  10. Queso macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    #10
    The military is socialist?!!? :eek:

    :D
     
  11. Fazzy macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Location:
    check the tracking device
    #11
    What I learnt from this thread: people seem nice in chicago
     
  12. DakotaGuy macrumors 68040

    DakotaGuy

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Location:
    South Dakota, USA
    #12
    I'd say there is a much higher number of conservatives or moderates in the military compared to liberals so that sort of throws that theory out.:)

    That is the reason why it is hard to say a conservative won't ever help you, but a liberal will because we all help each other no matter their political beliefs. Remember the DADT repeal? It was civilians that had the biggest issue with the repeal not soldiers. In fact since the repeal nothing has happened and it's not really even an issue anymore inside the ranks. Things don't go smoothly when it comes to issues like that if people don't work together and help each other out.
     
  13. Squadleader macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2010
    Location:
    Avalon Hill
    #13
    In most your other posts both entities were synonymous..Again, is it a watering hole catering to gays...??
     
  14. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Location:
    5045 feet above sea level
    #14
    Comeon Lee

    You think Chicago and thus being liberal are the causes for that behavior? I know many a conservative valued person who would give the shirt off their back to help someone out in the manner you described and more
     
  15. Fazzy macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Location:
    check the tracking device
    #15
    This is what that reminded me of :D
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Andeavor macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    #16
    It certainly has communistic tendencies.

    Oh, snap!
     
  17. DakotaGuy macrumors 68040

    DakotaGuy

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Location:
    South Dakota, USA
    #17
    I know wonderful people liberal, conservative and somewhere between the two that would do anything for anyone at anytime. Trying to claim that liberals are the only good people that care about others and everyone else could care less is nothing more then finding a way to wedge everyone against each other based on political beliefs. I'm not a fan of that approach and I don't think it really benefits us as a society to judge people with that approach.
     
  18. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #18
    You have a point. I guess it has just not been my experience. Conservatives always seem to say that they do everything by themselves. Isn't that the big claim to fame?

    What are you talking about?

    I do too- just not very many. And it always seems that if you ask for help, you're seen as weak. Again, TBH, I am only speaking from personal experience and what I see many conservatives saying in the media.

    I didn't say that liberals were the only good people. But do get sick of conservative media types constantly portraying themselves as the only good people. That's a daily occurrence. It goes both ways, doesn't it?
     
  19. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2001
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #19
    I see what you're getting at, Lee, but I don't think I can draw the conservative/liberal parallel. It's great Chicago is like that, and apart from the weather I sometimes wish it weren't next to impossible to find a tech job there that isn't underpaid, under-appreciated wage slaving for a financial house.

    San Francisco, clearly one of the nation's more liberal cities, and even more so the greater Bay Area, is not like that. For the most part, if you want to get somewhere, you're going to do it yourself, and you will encounter the most narcissistic douchebags in the world in the process -- ridiculous, self-centered people who wear this mask of worldly, liberal enlightenment to hide how they're cynically salivating over the prospect if watching other people fail. As fathomlessly wrong as Ayn Rand was, sit here long enough and some of her most ludicrous mustache-twirling villains start to look credible.

    Don't get me wrong, there are great people and lots to love here, but I regularly watch a whole bus full of seated people go voluntarily blind when a pregnant woman boards. If you meet somebody willing to step up and volunteer to help a stranger, even at no cost to himself, then you've probably met a recent transplant from the Midwest. I'm dating a St. Louis native now, in fact, and the contrast is only sort of starting to sink in. I never really noticed before, because I did grow up in the rural, religious area, where the attitude is generally "if God wants you to succeed, you'll succeed, and if God wants you to fail, you'll fail. It's really none of my business, except to conspicuously note when God seems to like me better." I realize now it's the same narcissistic attitude wrapped in different ideology.

    So, between Alabama and California, I think I have to conclude that a culture of navel-gazing self-righteousness is the enemy here, and it knows no strict political affiliation.
     
  20. Queso macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    #20
    Seriously? That's just wrong. Don't you ever say anything?
     
  21. 184550 Guest

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    #21
    Trying to count the number of times I've been told personal experiences are worthless around PRSI but I don't think I can count that high.

    I think it's admirable how you and your friends offered to help this young man but trying to reduce it to liberal and conservative values is just silly.
     
  22. Squadleader macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2010
    Location:
    Avalon Hill
    #22
     
  23. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2001
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    #23
    If I'm one of the seated, it's easiest to just be the one to stand. Otherwise, I've tried and it's pretty much just an easy way to pick an argument with an entitled stranger that they're happy to keep up until whenever they were going to get off the bus anyway. Here I come close to using the word narcissist in its technical sense: if these people were capable of shame, they'd have gotten up in the first place.

    That's sweet how you think gay people are the extra-nicest people ever and you can only encounter basic humane treatment in a gay bar, but seriously, there are whole parts of the country where people really aren't generally *******s.
     
  24. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #24
    The structure of the military is inherently socialist in the classical sense.

    I love the politicians continued to harp about "unit cohesion" when the military's own review found that most soldiers didn't see it as a problem.

    Take off your shoes.

    There's a difference between using an anecdote to illustrate a thought or point of view and using it to prove a trend or data point. However, you're correct here. Lee's story is interesting and provides a point of view, but it does not tell us the wider story of conservative and liberal values and a willingness to help.
     
  25. Squadleader macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2010
    Location:
    Avalon Hill
    #25
    Yea, but when your whole purpose is to exchange phone numbers with a member of the same sex in a gay bar, I assume you have to use honey instead of vinegar as well...dont you...??
     

Share This Page