A Time for Choosing

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by fivepoint, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. fivepoint, Feb 6, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2011

    fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #1
    In 1964, much like today, it was a 'time for choosing.' Thankfully, in 1964 there was a growing voice who could speak for the people and stand against the ruling elites by clearly and convincingly advocating traditional, conservative, honest, common-sense, values like no voice in recent history. That voice was Ronald Reagan.

    The following is a transcript of one of my favorite Reagan speeches; "A Time for Choosing." Regardless of your own political views, this man was an amazing orator and politician who did a great deal of good for this country helping to bring us out of the despair, inflation, and poverty of the Carter Administration. He wasn't infallible by any means, but he has done more to promote the values of fiscal conservatism and personal liberty than perhaps any voice in the past 100 years.

    Happy Birthday, Gipper.


     
  2. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #2
    The rest of the speech:

     
  3. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #3
    Reagan was a thug, a well spoken mental midget who hired mafia types to run his administration, and a murderer. In the annals of history, he will be a cipher, remembered fondly only by people with alzheimer's dementia.
     
  4. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #4
    I don't understand the glorification of Reagan. He did nothing good for the country. He funneled a lot of money into "senseless" military technology (compared with viable military technology).
     
  5. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #5
    I'm glad that not everyone in this country has such amazing historical amnesia, but far far far too many do.

    How exactly was he a fiscal conservative in anything other than rhetoric. Come to think of it, the man was nothing but rhetoric.
     
  6. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #6
    To be fair, at this point, it would be difficult not to level that accusation at the current president. His intellect appears to be light-years ahead of the Gimper, but he uses it largely on being a dodgy politician.
     
  7. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #7
    Insightful political analysis. Thanks for your incredibly useful contribution to the discussion and on-point relevant commentary regarding the former President of the United States.
     
  8. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #8
    He fueled a lot of great jokes for Johnny Carson. I was 6 - 14 during the Reagan years, and those years were great fodder for Carson and Letterman.

    Only thing better was Carnac the Magnificent. ;)

    EDIT: Oh.. he did get roasted and roasted WELL on Dean Martin's Celebrity Roasts.

    BL.
     
  9. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #9
  10. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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  11. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #11
    You are very welcome. Hopefully you realize that there are probably close to a third of the country who actually understand the truth about your favorite scumbag. I disliked him in '76, detested him in '80 and outright loathed the bastard in '87 when he murdered my friend from HS. History's opinion of him will not improve; eventually, I will be seen as being charitable.
     
  12. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #12
    I'm not so sure. People need to be understood in the context of their own times. Hopefully, as we continue to progress towards being a more just society, Reagan will be understood as a president, for better and for worse, in a thankfully bygone era.
     
  13. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #13
    Obama is just a continuance of the trend in this country that largely picked up with Reagan. They've all been ****.
     
  14. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #14
    What context do you suggest would make him look better? If the people writing the history books feel disposed to make him look better, I might see how he could be whitewashed. But having a clear adult (albeit biased) memory of those years, I cannot think how an honest look at the context, from the '70s to the '90s, would realistically exonerate him.
     
  15. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #15
    For example, a lot of people in the U.S. were homophobes, not just Reagan, in the early 1980s. Fortunately fewer seem to be so today.

    On the other hand, I'm not sure a substantially higher percentage believed we were threatened by extra-terrestrial invasion.
     
  16. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    Well (imitation of Reagan), bad things happen in every administration. I would trade all the Reagan scandals for the president staining someone's dress if it would relieve the country and its people of the tragic results of eight years of the California Mafia in the Whitehouse.
     
  17. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Fivepoint- Reagan was the biggest nightmare to ever happen to this country. He turned us from the biggest creditor nation into the biggest debtor nation in his 8 years as President. He sold "trickle down" economics to the country and it never has delivered. Not once. He also ignored the AIDS pandemic. The man could talk a good talk. But his walk sucked. I lived through it. Actually, I would say I survived it.

    If you want me to list all the things that jackass screwed up, I will. But I don't think you want that.
     
  18. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #18
    Gotta disagree here....based on this graph
     

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  19. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #19
    I love when people post the graph of the debt relative to control of the presidency. How utterly useless. Do you honestly expect people to believe that Reagan wouldn't have done massive spending cuts to match his tax cuts if the liberal democrats wouldn't have pushed back at every corner... pushing pro tax and spend policies? Do you honestly not realize that it's specifically because of the Democratic congress that Reagan wasn't able to get us on a path of financial solvency... that they directly prevented him from passing spending cuts that could have resulted in massive surpluses? It's like history completely escapes some people. Not only that, but basic civics. A chart that completely ignores that it's the congress that passes spending bills, not the president. Of course, when the best some can do to add useful information to this discussion is call Reagan a 'mental-midget, murderer' then proceed to make fun of alzheimer's... a disease affecting hundreds of thousands of people worldwide, I guess I shouldn't expect much.

    Now, George W. Bush is a different story. If you want to blame Bush and the Republican Congress in the 2000's, I'll help you criticize them. Big government, liberal-light, neo cons took over the party and it's still infused with them. Boehner voted for NCLB, voted for the Patriot Act, and I believe voted for Bush's prescription drug program. He's not a real small-government conservative... but lets be honest, Reagan was. If it wasn't for a congress full of Democrats we'd be far better off financially today.
     
  20. citizenzen, Feb 7, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #20
    The president signs them.

    How many presidential vetos did congress override?


    Edit: In the he 97th US Congress, the senate had a Republican majority 53 to 46 Democrats and 1 Independent. In the the 98th US Congress, the senate had a Republican majority 55 to 45 Democrats. In the the 99th US Congress, the senate had a Republican majority 53 to 47 Democrats.

    It wasn't until the 100th US Congress, the last two years of Reagan's presidency, that Democrats had a majority in the House and Senate. During his first 6 years in office, Republicans controlled the executive office and the senate.

    So, 5P you are incorrect when you refer to "the Democratic congress" as congress is made up of both the House and the Senate. And for most of Reagan's presidency, Republicans controlled the Senate.
     
  21. mcrain, Feb 7, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011

    mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #21
    After Reagan's first tax cut where he reduced the marginal tax rates on the highest earners from around 70% to around 30%, every tax bill he signed raised taxes. Most of those increased taxes went to all taxpayers instead of replacing the taxes removed from the highest earners. The trend of redistributing wealth began right there. Reduce the tax burdens of the wealthy, while simultaneously replacing the lost revenue with taxes on the poor and middle classes.

    On the flip side, if you go back and look at all the spending that FP is talking about, you see one strange thing. The non-military discretionary spending did not increase very much. On the other hand, the military discretionary spending, on the other hand, went way up.

    So, FP wants us all to believe that Reagan cut taxes on the masses and wasn't responsible for all the increases in military spending.

    That's a very generous analysis of Reagan's tenure.

    FYI:

    [​IMG]

    Also, don't forget, Reagan likely switched parties because of the shift away from racism and bigotry that occurred in the Democrat party. The timing of his "switch" was awfully fishy, especially in light of his adoption of the "Southern Strategy."

    Why there? He had no connection to Philadelphia, Miss. He was from Illinois, and was living in California. Why Philidelphia, Mississippi to make your announcement that you were running for president? Unless of course you wanted to make sure people knew where you stood on one issue.
     
  22. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #22
    Don't you come in here spreading your vicious facts!
     
  23. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #23
    Reagan's administration pursued a policy called immoral and evil, and encouraging a white racist regime, by a Bishop who had just won the Nobel Prize. When that Bishop requested an opportunity to meet to discuss the US' policy, the response was "no meeting is planned." Here, have a warmly written note.
     
  24. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #24
    I don't mean to be the person to drop this bomb on you (oops, sorry for the violent rhetoric) but it takes both houses of congress to pass budget cuts. Not just one. Do you seriously deny that Reagan proposed budget cuts were held up by the democrats in congress? SERIOUSLY?

    Keep posting the ridiculous graphs, anyone who knows anything about politics knows how ridiculous they are... although it's very true that the Republican party has it's own problems with big-government spending... problems that I often point out.
     
  25. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #25
    It takes the House for the origination of the budget, then the Senate to pass it, and finally, the President's signature. You forgot one. When the President vetos, the House and Senate can override, but it's not easy, and I don't recall very many overrides during Reagan's time in office. I could be wrong.

    I don't deny that Reagan tried to pass spending cuts to non-military discretionary spending that would have been detrimental to the American people that were held up by the Democrats who actually gave a crap about the poor and middle classes. On the other hand, for every penny he tried to cut, he spent 10 on the military.
     

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