Abdication of American global leadership.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Jun 3, 2017.

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  1. PracticalMac, Jun 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017

    PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
    Abdication of American global leadership.

    Trans Pacific Partnership was created to attract Asian countries to align with US interest and not China. Now China is arm twisting its neighbors to bow to them.

    NATO not only insures military unity, but is also a major channel to sell US military hardware. Instead of just focusing on the funding imbalances (which I agree with), Trumps comments are causing a deep rift and Europe may no longer purchase US arms.

    EU economy hitched to the US, but now there is feeling they should go their own path.

    Paris Accord is a purely voluntary, non-binding, gentlepeople's agreement to deal with pollution and climate change. It was so loose it really cannot be called a promise and as such does not need congressional approval because it does not force any restrictions. It is like invited to community picnic and you bring your own food.
    The grand irony is the US green energy industry is creating jobs, estimated 12x faster than other energy systems so the US could achieve PA goals regardless, except now the US will be ignored as some other country will be chosen as the Green champion, maybe even China as they spend billions to counter their deadly pollution issues.


    Regardless:
    Trump is creating power vacuums around the world in various topics that other countries will fill, and and America exceptionalism will fade.


    One cannot be a leader alone.
     
  2. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #2
    I agree, and it is ironic that the Right does not see this, but blames Obama for abdicating responsibility for the countries involved in the Arab Spring.
     
  3. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #3
    US exceptionalism in everything except dropping bombs was gone a long time ago. It's just a mindset we are born with by default. We're still talking about the founding fathers like they died yesterday and not 200+ years ago. We're probably one of the slowest able countries to accept progress.
     
  4. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #4
    A gentlemen's agreement doesn't funnel billions to the second largest economy in the world to continue to increase pollution.
     
  5. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #5
    Such a fake talking point... in defense of ignoring work in progress along with the stated goals of the countries signing on to the Paris accords?

    Iironically one of the big reasons China has already had to start switching to renewables and cracking down on environmental pollution is its longstanding economic partnership with the USA, even as we are also competitors. What they have polluted their air and water with for decades now has been the toxic effluents of production lines run for export back to the USA. When we offshored our work to China, we offshored the pollution as well.

    Now Trump sez... never mind, we can pollute back here at home now, so see ya around, maybe, later... ???

    China sez.. no problem, we will continue to work towards mitigation of climate change by installing more renewables, reducing pollution, increasing conservation efforts, so don't worry if you can't make the economic summits any more, we got them covered.

    Somehow I don't see the American people buying into this scenario. We might want the jobs back... until we realize they're not coming back without massive investment in technology to mitigate the pollution that we outlawed here to begin with. Industry's "solution" then was to offshore it and keep making a quick buck.

    Well it might actually be true now that "you can't go home again". Not with those pollutants. And, China's now saying hey guess what, you can't do that over here either. Spend into the mitigation efforts or go home. Meanwhile Trump figures to put up an import tax? Way to decide we are no longer a consumer-based economy. Not sure opening up some coal mine is going to cover the gaps there LOL.

    Maybe we can all cooperate in building special islands for manufacturing in the Pacific out of all that plastic trash in the ocean. Oh, wait, I forgot. We don't do long term investment on spec any more in the USA, especially not if some sort of international component would be involved on the benefits side. Nope, we're all in for us and only us now, and that's that. Drawbridges are UP. That's different from "shields up" though, isn't it. I bet there are countries would like to pop a big glass dome over us right about now.
     
  6. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #6
    You use the word "billions" like its a lot of money.

    Care to guess how much the US voluntary contribution is going to be, in the three years before Trump's withdrawal from the Paris Agreement takes effect?

    Three billion dollars. About a billion per year. Out of a Federal Budget that's almost four trillion. That's 0.025%

    Keep in mind, that's a voluntary contribution. If Trump or the Treasury Secretary really didn't think the US could afford, they could always just decline to make it.
     
  7. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #7
    Exactly!
    There is no funneling because nothing binding exists.

    Get it now?
     
  8. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #8
    Source please.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 3, 2017 ---
    I addressed this question in another thread. I found no evidence that China was receiving funds as ZA alleges. I hope he can provide a source for his repeated claims.
     
  9. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #9
    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.was...umps-claims-on-the-paris-climate-change-deal/

    Pay close attention to the last sentence, it's pretty unbelievable.

    Also keep in mind that they are promising to not pollute as much per GDP unit in return for this, not an actual reduction in current emissions, considering their people can't breath outside this is a terrible deal.
     
  10. smallcoffee macrumors 65816

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    #10
    Not happening. Mostly just noise.

    Nope. TPP was a bad deal for the US.

    It's only on the surface. NATO isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

    ? In what way? Are Europeans going to stop using Google and stuff? I mean, more than welcome to, do whatever you want. Don't buy Macs or anything. Buy some Lenovo.

    Love it. So prophetic. I could hear the theatrical music in the background as I read that sentence.

    As we ride off into the sunset, we see that the American Exceptionalism faded.... The End.

    :rolleyes:
     
  11. joy.757 macrumors regular

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    #11
    An average Indian has 1/10th the CO2 emission of an average American. What do you expect us to do? Go back to living in huts?

    Edit: America is especially bad at this. having almost 2x per capita emissions than the EU.
     
  12. smallcoffee macrumors 65816

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    #12
    No, but you could stop having kids.
     
  13. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #13
    For those who seem to be arguing that the Paris accord is too weak - I look forward to Mr. Art-of-the-Deal's plan than protects the environment better.
     
  14. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #14
    I'm going to do a Devil's Advocate post. Maybe we've deteriorated so much we no longer deserve to hold the leadership position. :( Trump certainly does not know what to do with it. He's almost single handedly turned this country into a world wide laughing stock. Mr Macho-Savy Deal Maker is being ridiculed by all our world neighbors.

    I'm starting to wonder if the rest of us still have it in us for this role. I know I'm sick and tired of close to two decades of Middle East conflict. Sick to death of it. That is probably being selfish, but I see lots of bad things happening with our society. We are to busy stabbing each other in the back, greed gone wild, the hard push to support the War Machine with a big **** you being delivered to what it takes to make us a better society. So much so that wild fantastical budgets are being proposed by It Will Work! Mr. Genius, or the chop every social program you can get away with Republicans so we can buy another tank.

    I'm really disillusioned. :oops::( My wife suggested we move to Italy, a nice romantic idea, except they've got some budget issues themselves. :rolleyes:
     
  15. joy.757, Jun 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017

    joy.757 macrumors regular

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    #15
    That won't reduce per capita emissions. Also, already too late, unless you're proposing genocide.
     
  16. MarkusL macrumors 6502

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    #16
    Are you claiming India is China?
     
  17. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #17
    The last sentence pertains to India, not China.
     
  18. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #18
    Let's hope he does.
     
  19. zin Suspended

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    #19
    Wow, the power structures of the world are getting upset because they don't have one of their puppets occupying the White House.

    Get used to it, world. The times are a-changin' !
     
  20. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #20
    China isn't getting a cent from America.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 3, 2017 ---
    I hate to break it to you, but Sanders and Corbyn aren't puppets and they'd support the Paris treaty.
     
  21. zin Suspended

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    #21
    Sanders and Corbyn don't occupy the White House...

    And neither of them will be occupying Downing Street in five days.
     
  22. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #22
    That's a bold statement on an outcome with odds of 20%.
     
  23. smallcoffee macrumors 65816

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    #23
    Yup that's it I'm! I'm proposing genocide! :rolleyes:

    And it would reduce emissions, because there would be less mouths to feed, less people driving or otherwise using energy, etc....
     
  24. joy.757 macrumors regular

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    #24
    1 American = 10 Indians, so a genocide in America would benefit humanity more. :p
     
  25. smallcoffee macrumors 65816

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    #25
    So, aside from this post being disgusting to even joke about genocide, your math is flawed.
     

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