abortion and the death penalty.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by scotthayes, Sep 23, 2008.

?

which do you believe in

Poll closed Nov 4, 2008.
  1. Pro choice and anti death penalty

    58 vote(s)
    56.9%
  2. Pro life and pro death penalty

    15 vote(s)
    14.7%
  3. Pro choice and pro death penalty

    16 vote(s)
    15.7%
  4. Pro life and anti death penalty

    13 vote(s)
    12.7%
  1. scotthayes macrumors 68000

    scotthayes

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    #1
    Just been having a very interesting conversation with my wife about abortion and the death penalty.

    The conversation got around to pro-life pro death penalty and pro-choice and anti death penalty and the fact they can be seen as contradicting beliefs.

    I know this topic is very personal and could lead a huge amount of hatred. However we are all sensible people and can have a proper debate on the subject.


    Personally I'm pro choice and anti death penalty.

    As a man I don't see it as my final decision abortion and at the same time I don't believe the state has the right to take a life for a crime.
     
  2. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

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    #2
    Just to clarify, is pro-life being used to mean anti-abortion in the poll?
     
  3. és: macrumors 6502a

    és:

    #3
    What are you meaning by pro-life. Surely there are variants on beliefs.
     
  4. scotthayes thread starter macrumors 68000

    scotthayes

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    #4
    for the poll and us non-Americans pro life = anti abortion
     
  5. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Location:
    IOWA
    #5
    'es, the OP meant Pro-Life as the opposite of Pro-Choice. There are gray areas here, but for the sake of simplicity... I'd say the poll is fine.
     
  6. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #6
    I am in favour of life, and also in favour of choice.
     
  7. arkitect macrumors 601

    arkitect

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Bath, United Kingdom
    #7
    Surely Pro-Life these days means opposition to abortion?

    For the record I voted:
    Pro choice and anti death penalty
     
  8. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    Republic of Ukistan
    #8
    Pro-life means absolutely nothing. Is it like pro tools, perhaps?
     
  9. arkitect macrumors 601

    arkitect

    Joined:
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    Bath, United Kingdom
    #9
    O for god's sake! Do you always have to be so bloody pedantic?
    :confused::rolleyes:

    Link. Yes, yes I know it is Wikipedia.

    So funny.
     
  10. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    Sep 28, 2007
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    IOWA
    #10
    Oh boy... here we go.
     
  11. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #11
    If "pro-life" is a term used by those in favour of the death penalty, it is quite obviously devoid of any rational meaning.
     
  12. és: macrumors 6502a

    és:

    #12
    I wouldn't. I'd say that pro-life is one of the most offensive terms around. Not the OP's usage, but the term in general.

    For the record, I know exactly what it means.
     
  13. scotthayes thread starter macrumors 68000

    scotthayes

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    Birmingham, England
    #13
    pro life and pro choice are the popular meanings of anti abortion and acceptance that it is the individuals decision. the term used is not the subject!!!
     
  14. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #14
    The term used is exceptionally prejudicial. I refuse to discuss the subject using such loaded terminology. I refer you to Post #6 above. Carry on.
     
  15. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

    Joined:
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    IOWA
    #15
    I'm sure you wouldn't, 'es... but there are also people out there who think that "pro-choice" is the most offensive term around. That it should really be "pro-death" or "pro-little-helpless-baby-killing". Should the OP also make changes to suit those people's opinions? No. He uses common terms known by everybody. I suggest you respond to the IDEA and not the terminology that you apparently object to.

    You know what the OP meant, so just answer the poll if you want to and stop being a buzz-kill bordering on troll. Answer the question in the spirit in which it was posed.
     
  16. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

    Joined:
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    having a drink at Milliways
    #16
    being against abortion rights but favouring the death penalty is obviously contradictory. I cannot envisage any logical argument to support that position.

    being in favour of abortion rights and against the death penalty is not necessarily contradictory for two main reasons:
    1) because allowing someone to take a decision about the subject doesn't imply that we would take that decision in the same position
    2) because of the commonly held view that an embryo is not equivalent to a human life
     
  17. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #17
    See my garage. I am most definitely pro-tools.
     
  18. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    Toronteazy
    #18
    I need an option for "kill 'em all, let YHWH sort 'em out".
     
  19. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    #19
    pro-choice but anti-death penalty here. /shrug.
     
  20. Ntombi macrumors 68030

    Ntombi

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Bostonian exiled in SoCal
    #20
    While I too find the appellation "pro-life" to be abhorrent, to answer the OQ, I am pro-choice and anti-death penalty.

    I would be more inclined to be in favor of the death penalty if it were used only in those most heinous of cases where we absolutely positively knew that the person was guilty.

    Since we know that it's not fairly applied, and that there have been innocent people released from death row, how can any thinking person be in favor of the death penalty as it exists in this country? Please, those of you who are in favor of it, I would love to hear a real answer.


    This is a particularly timely thread, considering this possible horror is happening:

    I have no idea if this man is guilty, but there seem to be enough questions about the case itself to warrant looking at without a deadline.
     
  21. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Location:
    Colorado
    #21
    I am anti-abortion and pro death penalty. I freely admit that I am sometimes conflicted by this stance.

    There are a couple of reasons that I feel this way. First, people sentenced to the death penalty have committed a heinous crime and in my opinion are deserving of this punishment. Abortion is perpetrated on an innocent person, in my opinion.

    Then there is the matter of how many of each are done. First, lets look at the death penalty in the United States. Since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976, there have been 1099 executions in the United States.

    http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/dpusa.htm


    Now, what about the number of abortions? Since abortions were legalized in 1973, there have over 30 million abortions in the United States.

    http://www.euthanasia.com/usstat.html
     

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  22. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #22
    I predict this thread will not end well. Abortion threads tend to degenerate into accusation of "murderer" and "nazi" being bandied about lightly.

    Maybe y'all can prove me wrong.
     
  23. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Location:
    IOWA
    #23
    I don't care who you are... that is a disgusting statistic. :(



    I share your hopes that this thread does not disintegrate into something like that. If everyone will try to have a little more patience, a little more understanding, and a little more self-control it should at least last a bit longer than usual!
     
  24. scotthayes thread starter macrumors 68000

    scotthayes

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Location:
    Birmingham, England
    #24
    I'm hoping (maybe very innocent of me) that this thread will not descend in to a thread of name calling.
    The thought behind it is to see people's feelings abortion and the death penalty and if they can be contradicting feelings. It is not intended as a thread on abortion alone or the death penalty alone.
     
  25. és: macrumors 6502a

    és:

    #25
    Surely this is just an act, you can't really be this obtuse in real life. You're taking what I've said completely out of context. You need to read what I write more carefully because you continue to come unstuck.

    I'm not sure why you've gone off at a tangent about pro-choice, as it has no relevance. Despite your ranting, it's not the term that's offensive, it's the actions that are perceived to be wrong.

    Pro-life, however, carries horrible connotation and insinuation. Being pro-choice doesn't necessarily mean that you're not pro-life.

    To have a decent poll, you can't leave so much grey area.

    Every time I post something, you're on it like a flash and end up with an entire forum poking fun at you and your posts. I thought you might have learned your lesson by now. My suggestion is that you think and read what I've written before you pick up on everything I say, you just get egg on your face.
     

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