About all this gay stuff...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by NickZac, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. NickZac macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    #1
    Why do people get so worked up over it? I'm not asking about right vs. wrong, I am questioning why it has become such a hotly debated issue. I am curious as something along the lines of abortion can be argued as an overall social issue that impacts everyone due to the killing of a child or the repression of a right that women have. No, this isn't about abortion, but I am using it to illustrate how you can argue it has dramatic impact on all of our lives. How does homosexuality impact us to take the same extreme measures of issues such as abortion, while the two are completely different? How does someone who is homosexual harm the life of someone who is heterosexual?
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    People are afraid of anything that is different.
     
  3. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

    GoCubsGo

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    #3
    Likewise, how does someone having an abortion affect someone else who has never had one or can't ever get pregnant to have said abortion?

    In my opinion it comes down to values. People will argue that being gay is wrong, against the bible and blah blah blah. Others will say the same for abortion. What I find happening most often is these are the very people who hold a bible in one hand and a knife in the other.

    Someone having an abortion doesn't affect me personally nor does someone who is gay who wants to marry. I say if you're dead set on getting married then go for it!

    People will debate for and against even after a law is set. I am not saying I am for or against either matter but I also don't consider "gay" to be an "issue" whereas abortion in my opinion, is. I hope that makes sense.
     
  4. Xian Zhu Xuande macrumors 6502a

    Xian Zhu Xuande

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    I think it boils down to either 1) it offends their religious beliefs, 2) it offends some kind of pre-conceived notion they have about our country's culture or foundation, or 3) it offends their political beliefs. Sadly much of this is people choosing to believe what others have told them to be the truth.

    Never heard a half-decent argument about why gay marriage will harm people or even this country (not that such a thing would be a good argument to support discrimination of this sort anyway).

    The haters will hate, I suppose.

    I'll leave abortion alone. I'll just assert that I believe it is wrong to force a woman to have a child, though there's murky waters once she's chosen to carry it for most of the pregnancy.
     
  5. Apple OC macrumors 68040

    Apple OC

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  6. Xian Zhu Xuande macrumors 6502a

    Xian Zhu Xuande

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    #6
    Hah. Good point. That's a big part of the problem.
     
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    They don't. It doesn't.

    Yet, it's taken decades of social debate to get to the point we've arrived at today. Suffice it to say that the other side has their arguments.

    Remember our discussion in the internet identity thread? The solution to this problem is as easy as the solution to that problem...

    If you don't like homosexuality, then just don't have gay sex.

    Just don't plug in to that hole.

    Simple.
     
  8. NickZac thread starter macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    The solution is extremely complicated although it shouldn't be. Gay persons have been discriminated against for centuries and to this day, still are. I would argue that they are the second most discriminated cohort, being disabled persons. I have a few friends that are gay who told me when some friends found out they were gay that the friendship ended. It is completely opposite of the American ideal of being judged as who you are and not what you are.
     
  9. NickZac thread starter macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    The abortion issue is IMO largely an individual choice, but people can make the argument that abortion is murder or that not allowing abortion is the repression of a basic freedom, and so it is lumped into as 'everybody's business' and can be implied that murder or repression affects everyone and so it is more than an individual choice. I'm not agreeing with it or disagreeing, but I am saying that someone who is born gay, will have no harmful impact on the greater whole, where as abortion can be argued to have harmful impact on the greater whole.
     
  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    When you come out- you find out who your real friends are. And for all their talk about unconditional love, the "friends" you usually lose are the religious ones (I know not all religious people are like this, cool your jets). In fact, some of them become enemies.
     
  11. NickZac thread starter macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    Which confuses me greatly as many Christians display 'hate' for gay people, yet Jesus preached acceptance and understanding.

    To be honest, it was a little awkward at first finding out a few of my friends were gay despite the fact I've done significant research on counter-cultures and subgroups. Only after you sit down and talk about it can you begin to create an understanding and acceptance. Heterosexual people are incapable of completely understanding homosexual people and this results in a lot of misconceptions and spread of false information.
     
  12. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #12
    Well, I know I will never completely understand you heterosexual people. ;)
     
  13. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    Tangent, but discrimination against atheists is still more tolerated. A poll a few of years ago showed Americans more willing to elect a gay or Muslim President than an atheist.

    We have, of course, already had a disabled President, though the public were not aware of it at the time.

    And completely consistent with the American practice of being judged as what you are. This is an ideal we have never lived up to adequately.

    I reiterate something I said earlier about how heartening it is to see so many more people, particularly conservative-leaning ones, and especially younger ones who don't really get what their elders have made so much fuss about for so long, taking this position recently.
     
  14. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #15
    -Lennon
     
  15. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #16
    Fear. Fear of their own impulses, fear for their children, fear of change, fear of societal change, fear of religious change, fear, fear, fear.

    If it were simply a matter of their religious beliefs, they would be more secure in themselves.
     
  16. NickZac thread starter macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    #17
    If we can operate under the understanding that we cannot know how it is to be someone else or have differing core traits, then we can reason it is not sensible or moral to judge based on those differences and an overall understanding can occur.

    It's the core of much of my work. In most cases, better v. worse or right v. wrong do not exist. Differences exist, but it is all nominal data which cannot be ordered or ranked and never quantified.

    The disabled President took extreme measures to hide his disability. And I would agree that discrimination against Atheists are also a major issue and is accepted due to the overwhelming majority of the population having some type of religious preference.
     
  17. HyperX13 macrumors 6502

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    #18
    From personal experience. My 7 year old came back from school with a flier about a homosexual acceptance meeting for all kids. She doesn't even know about sex, nevermind homosexuality. Needless to say, she is in a private school now. I used to be very open to homosexuality, and NEVER had issues with them. I have cousins who are open homosexuals with adopted kids and I am even the godfather of one of the kids. But this is something that went over the edge. Now I am more involved in fighting against the agenda.
     
  18. NickZac thread starter macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    #19
    Why is that so bad? Individual identity is fully created before the 1st grade. It isn't pushing people to be gay, but it is encouraging people to be who they are.
     
  19. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #20
    Homosexuality is (a) infectious, (b) a choice, made by degenerates, and (c) the thin end of some wedge or other.

    Oh, and it's definitely unAmerican, unChristian and unManly.
     
  20. HyperX13 macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Once you push it on a 1st grader, who doesn't understand what sex is in first place, you crossed the line.
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #22
    Why? This makes absolutely no sense. And what is the "agenda"? Teaching kids that some kids may have two dads or two moms is wrong why, exactly?
     
  22. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #23
    And to accept people as they are.

    What agenda, exactly?
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #24
    How is accepting the existence of others crossing a line?
     
  24. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #25
    I presume you are not suggesting that changes whether atheists should be judged on their own merits like anyone else. It should be noted that there are more atheists than homosexuals in the United States, far more than there are Muslims or Jews. In fact, the number of Americans who identify as non-religious rivals the number who identify as Southern Baptist.

    Why would you assume anyone meant to teach your child about sex, gay or straight, in the first grade? You see the word "homosexual" and the only thing you think about are sex acts? Seems like you should have let your child attend, and perhaps she could have taught you something.
     

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