Abuse of Iraqi Detainees by British

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by skunk, Dec 31, 2009.

  1. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #1
    Just in case you Americans thought it was always your lot who were breaking the rules, it wasn't. Breaking the rules in extremis when national or personal survival is at stake is one thing: breaking them as a junior partner in a war of choice against a sovereign country and against International Law, the Geneva Conventions and the UN Charter is quite another. The sooner Blair, Straw and Hoon are locked up, the better.

    It's nothing to do with the nature of Americans, just the nature of war. There is always a better solution to a problem.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-secret-army-squad-abused-iraqis-1854749.html
     
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #2
    "The forms of ill-treatment suffered by the claimants include physical beatings, deprivation of food, exposure to the cold and excessive heat, threats of rape and violence, sexual humiliation and solitary confinement. It is manifestly clear that the extent and culmination of the above amount to a clear and egregious breach of Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights."

    Doesn't sound that bad if they received some good information.
     
  3. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #3
    Thats sick.:mad:
     
  4. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #4
    I would beat a terrorist to save an American/Britan they were maliciously planning to kill.
     
  5. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #5
    so 2 wrongs equals a right? Where does it end, the terrorists blows up civilians we torture the terrorist which pisses off the terrorists even more and they blow up more civilians and then more terrorists are tortured.... etc, etc...
     
  6. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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  7. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #7
    Doesn't work that way, obviously, we are being attacked more often now that gitmo is closing and harsh interrogations have been stopped.

    Besides a beating is well worth saving a life.
     
  8. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #8
    Pure invention. To suggest a correlation is ridiculous.

    Whose life?
     
  9. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #9
    Im not suggesting a correlation, I am suggesting that there isn't one at all.

    People have died in terrorist attacks, if we get info that can prevent them then we don't have to. We have prevented terror strikes in the past.
     
  10. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    Evidence of a terror strike prevented by the use of torture, please.
     
  11. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #11
    Evidence of terror strikes caused by torture, please.

    A terrorist strike on California was found due to interrogation of a terrorist.
     
  12. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #12
    What are you saying? :confused:
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #13
    Someone said that our interrogation techniques caused terror strikes, I said that can't be true because even when we don't interrogate/close gitmo we still get attacked. In fact the terror strikes have elevated since we projected a closing of gitmo.

    Secondly, the US and Brits are much nicer to captured people who attempted to kill citizens then I would be.
     
  14. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #14
    Sure, they contribute to how people feel, and, what's more, there are plenty of places still around which are not Guantanamo Bay, where such interrogation still goes on.
     
  15. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #15
    Im not worried about hurt feelings, I am worried about saving lives from irrational religious lunatics.
     
  16. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #16
    You should at least be able to provide some example of a torture regime which was successful in and necessary to the extracting of vital (and accurate) information in time to prevent an imminent strike, otherwise it might appear that you support torture just because you think it's a good thing.
     
  17. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #17

    That's exactly why I never voted for Bush. ;)
     
  18. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #18
    Torture does not produce good information. Good luck finding anything to say otherwise and try not to trip on sources that do.

    As for torture causing more problems consider this. If let's say Iran was torturing dozens of our citizens or people we liked do you think it would make us more or less likely to do them harm in return?
     
  19. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #19
    They are a terrorist because an administration that has been shown to make **** up to further its agenda says they are? You have no problem declaring anyone picked up on the mere suspicion of terrorism a terrorist? Then because they fit a label that YOU whole heartedly agree with you advocate the torture of another human being?

    I stand by my previous statements.
     
  20. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #20
    You seriously can't see how our actions which project a ridiculously bad image of the US to the world fuel terrorist hatred and recruitment? Do you wear blinders or something?
     
  21. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #21
    PRO
    "Enhanced interrogation techniques" reliably extract whatever information the interrogator or his superiors desire to have extracted.

    CON
    …whether it's true or not.
     
  22. Metatron macrumors 6502

    Metatron

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    #22
    OMG...Liberals from any country or creed are so full of crap.
     
  23. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    If only other conservatives would bring such well-reasoned arguments to the table.
     
  24. Maserati7200 macrumors 6502a

    Maserati7200

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    #24
    But we haven't attacked or have citizens that planned to attack them, now do we? If we had American terrorists planning on attacking innocent Iranians, I'd have no problem with the Iranian government torturing the Americans to find out more info. Torture isn't a good thing, I don't like the fact that people are tortured, but it is sometime necessary. If you know that if you are caught you are going to get tortured, then you might be a little hesitant in doing certain things. If they get caught, they know they'll be protected from torture so why bother saying anything?

    Let me ask you all a question. Say, we had a few terrorists who admitted that they are involved in an attack which will happen shortly, but refuse to say anything. Or we found indisputable evidence that these few gentleman are involved an immanent attack, and we have them in our custody. My point is, we would have terrorists in custody and we know without a doubt they are planing an attack, which will kill thousands of innocent lives. If we don't act fast, it's over for those few thousand. What would you rather do, save the feelings and emotions of one person with ill intentions and allow those thousands to die, or save the thousands of people, but hurt the feelings of poor Johnny the terrorist?

    However, places like China that use torture as punishment is a bad thing. I think torture has to be "a necessary evil"
     
  25. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #25
    Really? You do have US personnel planning on attacking innocent Iranians - it's called contingency planning. Of course you wouldn't call them terrorists, but the Iranians certainly would.
    Those who trot out this line so glibly should really post a link to a source which shows that a single attack has been prevented by the use of torture. It hasn't happened yet.

    The old "Jack Bauer Defence", eh? It's nonsense. You invent a scenario to justify inhumanity, but the scenario does not exist. Even if it existed, torture has proven to be a wildly unreliable method of getting accurate information.
     

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