Adobe CEO says bloated Microsoft has no heart


Blue Velvet

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Jul 4, 2004
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But behind every success lurk the same rumors that Microsoft will eventually erode Adobe's PDF business and even worse produce a serious threat to Photoshop and Illustrator. Adobe skeptics see Microsoft eventually bundling its publishing and editing software with Windows or at least selling the applications at a prices far below the rather ambitious targets set by Adobe.

OK, I have my issues with Adobe but I've never heard of anyone in the publishing industry seriously proposing that Microsoft are able to succesfully produce a serious competitor to Photoshop and Illustrator, let alone Indesign and also to convince studios to purchase them — even if they were bundled or dirt-cheap.

Ain't. Gonna. Happen.
 

iGary

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May 26, 2004
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Randy's House
Blue Velvet said:
OK, I have my issues with Adobe but I've never heard of anyone in the publishing industry seriously proposing that Microsoft are able to succesfully produce a serious competitor to Photoshop and Illustrator, let alone convince studios to purchase it — even if it was bundled or dirt-cheap.

Ain't. Gonna. Happen.
The freaking blue and green people are there, too!!

Damn them, damn them all to hell!!!
 

840quadra

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 1, 2005
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Twin Cities Minnesota
Our graphics artists CAN'T WAIT to switch from Adobe to Microsoft products!

Wait, they need something that will run on Both Windows and Mac OS!

Nevermind!!
 

MCCFR

macrumors regular
Nov 6, 2003
108
0
Guildford, Surrey, UK
But let's ask ourselves a question here…

Isn't Bruce Chizen running the risk of becoming the Jenson Button of the applications industry (for non-F1 fans, Button - who drives for BAR-Honda - spent most of 2004 trying to get out of his deal with BAR and into a Williams for 2005, and he's now spent what seems like most of 2005 trying to extricate himself from the resulting contract which put him in a Williams next year to stay with BAR: confused? wondering what a contract means to our Jenson? if you're a former girlfriend of Jenson's, think how lucky you were to avoid marriage - "till death us do part" would appear to just be the opening basis for negotiations).

A couple of years ago, Bruce's company went to a lot of trouble to cosy up to MS and Dell in an advertising campaign that focussed on the performance of Premiere (s******) under Windows against performance on a Mac.

Now, because Bruce has realised that MS has its eyes on his lunch - namely the Acrobat Happy Meal, he's suddenly come over as a man of the people.

Bruce: you decided to lay down with the Walking Dead and now you're concerned that they may want to eat your right arm - kind of wishing you'd spent more time focussing on the Macintosh community about now I would have thought.
 

winmacguy

macrumors 68020
Nov 8, 2003
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MCCFR said:
But let's ask ourselves a question here…

Isn't Bruce Chizen running the risk of becoming the Jenson Button of the applications industry (for non-F1 fans, Button - who drives for BAR-Honda - spent most of 2004 trying to get out of his deal with BAR and into a Williams for 2005, and he's now spent what seems like most of 2005 trying to extricate himself from the resulting contract which put him in a Williams next year to stay with BAR: confused? wondering what a contract means to our Jenson? if you're a former girlfriend of Jenson's, think how lucky you were to avoid marriage - "till death us do part" would appear to just be the opening basis for negotiations).
Jenson Button's progress can be followed here
http://formula-1.updatesport.com/news/article/1127590858/formula_one/F1analysis/Saturday-quotes--BAR/view.html
My brother-in-law is a design engineer at BAR (one of a large team)
 

narco

macrumors 65816
Dec 9, 2003
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California.
Maybe not a lot, but it could happen.

I receive a lot of files from a lot of different people, and I work with quite a few printers around the US. Sometimes, people who are new to the business will use their own thing and not ask a lot of questions. If I'm on a strict deadline and tell them I need the files in a certain way, I'll end up being told "it's too late, worth with what you have."

I'm wondering if this kind of behavior will be seen across the board, and printers will have to at least learn the technology to deal with this (could be rising) thing.

However, I highly doubt Microsoft will come out victorious over Adobe. They sure as hell can release whatever they want, but it doesn't mean that the people who will have to use it everyday will just accept it. Unless it's far superior to what Adobe currently makes (and I highly doubt it), then Microsoft shouldn't even attempt it because it's just going to confuse and make a mess of everything.

Fishes,
narco.
 

Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
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Even if they managed to produce a Creative Suite 'killer', Microsoft's standing and reputation in the creative industries is so pathetically abysmal that they would face an uphill struggle from the very start.

I would wager that they are even more loathed than Quark — and that's saying something.
 

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
5,693
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LaLaLand, CA
This is M$ we're talking about. It doesn't have to be good (which it probably won't be) for people to use it. If it's forced down our thoats, people will do what they always do and use what's there. Which means the rest of us will start receiving their propreitary files like the people who use Publisher. I used to have to use Word :eek: for newsletters if that tells you anything.

Not saying it's right, but embrace and extend comes into play here. Maybe Adobe will lower their prices. Since they have no more competition from Macromedia, maybe the "competition" from M$ will give them a nice little kick in the butt.
 

iMeowbot

macrumors G3
Aug 30, 2003
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solvs said:
Which means the rest of us will start receiving their propreitary files like the people who use Publisher. I used to have to use Word :eek: for newsletters if that tells you anything.
Yep. That's all an MS product has to be, good enough for small-to-medium businesses to churn out their corny internal stuff, and good enough for the corps of hacks who make up 90% of the people billing themselves as "web designers". Adobe could quite plausibly be forced into niche markets.
 

ariza910

macrumors regular
Oct 19, 2002
192
1
So Cal
solvs said:
This is M$ we're talking about. It doesn't have to be good (which it probably won't be) for people to use it. If it's forced down our thoats, people will do what they always do and use what's there. Which means the rest of us will start receiving their propreitary files like the people who use Publisher. I used to have to use Word :eek: for newsletters if that tells you anything.

Not saying it's right, but embrace and extend comes into play here. Maybe Adobe will lower their prices. Since they have no more competition from Macromedia, maybe the "competition" from M$ will give them a nice little kick in the butt.
Microsoft is so far behind anything from Adobe or Macromedia its not even funny. I have been using the free beta version of MS Acrylic for some time and its like using Photoshop circa 1995. This is one place MS really doesnt belong, they just dont get it when it comes to products for the creative community.

http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/default.aspx

here is MS killer suit. lol
 

winmacguy

macrumors 68020
Nov 8, 2003
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New Zealand
Blue Velvet said:
Even if they managed to produce a Creative Suite 'killer', Microsoft's standing and reputation in the creative industries is so pathetically abysmal that they would face an uphill struggle from the very start.

I would wager that they are even more loathed than Quark — and that's saying something.
The moment you accept a crap file from a client in an MS format it becomes your problem if you touch it.
The solution is don't touch it, dont work with it and or bill them for the ass hole factor and work involved, and yes Quark does suck something chronic :eek:
 

winmacguy

macrumors 68020
Nov 8, 2003
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Blue Velvet said:
Even if they managed to produce a Creative Suite 'killer', Microsoft's standing and reputation in the creative industries is so pathetically abysmal that they would face an uphill struggle from the very start.

I would wager that they are even more loathed than Quark — and that's saying something.
The sad thing is that there are still a lot of design jobs advertised that require a knowledge of Quark and InDesign. This also means that a lot of designers and companies still havent upgraded to OSX and are still using Classic :rolleyes:
 

Fender2112

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2002
1,077
268
Charlotte, NC
MS can't even get out a decent OS in a reasonable time frame. Why should we think they can put out a publishing suite capable of competing with Adobe?
 

PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,232
4
winmacguy said:
The sad thing is that there are still a lot of design jobs advertised that require a knowledge of Quark and InDesign. This also means that a lot of designers and companies still havent upgraded to OSX and are still using Classic :rolleyes:
why does knowledge of Quark and InDesign mean that OS 9 is still being used to run these programs? :confused:
 

Blue Velvet

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Jul 4, 2004
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winmacguy said:
The sad thing is that there are still a lot of design jobs advertised that require a knowledge of Quark and InDesign. This also means that a lot of designers and companies still havent upgraded to OSX and are still using Classic :rolleyes:
At work we moved to OSX Panther just over a year ago with Quark 6. Moving to InDesign is a little more problematic with some pretty entrenched workflows, templates, and attitudes amongst some of my colleagues. There's also the constant backlog of work that makes finding time for training a little difficult.

However, the general suckiness of Quark 6 has at least persuaded them there has to be a better way... we'll get there in the end. I'm still very interested in Quark 7 though, it's still my workhorse and I'm extremely comfortable within its environment.
 

winmacguy

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Nov 8, 2003
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PlaceofDis said:
why does knowledge of Quark and InDesign mean that OS 9 is still being used to run these programs? :confused:
Because a lot of design companies in NZ are pretty small scale operations with less than 10 people (between 1-5 normally) who will maximise the life of their software and hardware and also have a LOT of entrenched Quark (7 yrs + user skills for 4.2) and still be using OS9 because it works and they know how to use it. A large client/competitor of ours only converted to InDesign CS earlier this year after they were merged with another very large NZ Design company. Considering that Quark 4.2 files will not open in Quark 6.0 (my understanding) and Quark 5.0 was a waste of time there is no point up grading for many tens of thousands of dollars ($NZ) for commercial user liscences if 4.2 works for you. Some of our guys here still use OS9 becasue of the files that their clients send and becasue they did not want the learning curve and possible workflow disruption moving to OSX.
 

winmacguy

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Nov 8, 2003
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Blue Velvet said:
At work we moved to OSX Panther just over a year ago with Quark 6. Moving to InDesign is a little more problematic with some pretty entrenched workflows, templates, and attitudes amongst some of my colleagues. There's also the constant backlog of work that makes finding time for training a little difficult.

However, the general suckiness of Quark 6 has at least persuaded them there has to be a better way... we'll get there in the end. I'm still very interested in Quark 7 though, it's still my workhorse and I'm extremely comfortable within its environment.
We are currently evaluating CS3 as it appears to have a lot of potential to let us do stuff with templates and web based work flows. We use Panther as well although our admin has Tiger installed. We currently use CS2. I live in InDesign CS2. Have contemplated Quark but our web and prepress view at this stage is that it SUX.
 

Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
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winmacguy said:
Considering that Quark 4.2 files will not open in Quark 6.0 (my understanding)...
No, they open fine.

It's the other way around — Quark 6 will only save down to Quark 5, not v4.x, which has been a real pain when dealing with the occasional freelancer still using Quark 4.x

It necessitates saving down to a v5 file, then opening it up in Classic in Quark 5 then resaving again down to v4 — something I had to do for a range of publication templates sent out to a freelancer about 8 months ago.

IMO studios still running OS9 going into 2006 are doing themselves a disservice in the medium-term, making the learning curve more problematic when they do switch and stifling the skill-sets of the operators.
 

winmacguy

macrumors 68020
Nov 8, 2003
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Blue Velvet said:
No, they open fine.

It's the other way around — Quark 6 will only save down to Quark 5, not v4.x, which has been a real pain when dealing with the occasional freelancer still using Quark 4.x

It necessitates saving down to a v5 file, then opening it up in Classic in Quark 5 then resaving again down to v4 — something I had to do for a range of publication templates sent out to a freelancer about 8 months ago.
Cheers for that Blue Velvet, I wasnt exactly sure but I knew there were related issues with some earlier and later versions of Quark. I know that Illustrator CS and Illustrator 10 (first issues of the Adobe Suite) are not compatible for coding reasons which makes it a real ***** to edit files in Illustrator CS from earlier versions of Illustrator.