Affirmative action is this the end?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Happybunny, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. Happybunny, Feb 22, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012

    Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #1
  2. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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  3. B777Forevar macrumors 6502a

    B777Forevar

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    #3
    Affirmative Action is racism. It's unjust and unfair and it should be abolished. It shouldn't have been implemented in the first place.
     
  4. soco macrumors 68030

    soco

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    #4
    Sorry, but given what we (white people) did for so long to those unlike us, I think it's understandable that AA was implemented. So I disagree wholeheartedly.

    Now, on the other hand, I will agree that it's time to remove the bandaid. The wound has, for all intents and purposes, healed. If anything, we risk it re-opening.
     
  5. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #5
    I have to agree with this, though this "white guy" here didn't put anyone through anything, and no "black guy" born here was put through anything in a long time, hence you're right. It's time to remove the bandaid.

     
  6. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    Wow, i didn't think anyone would touch this issue for another 50 years. But i'm glad it's finally being talked about. Time to get rid of AA.
     
  7. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #7
    "We" white people haven't done anything to anyone. In fact if we are going to use ancestors to persecute people the black people are the ones who enslaved other black people for trade.

    Many of the white people including myself didn't have ancestors who were even in the US while slavery went on so what exactly am I paying someone back for? Because I'm white and that means I am inherently evil?
     
  8. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #8
    Exactly, I'm white but my family didn't get to the US until the 1970's. I was born in 1989, I don't owe anything to anyone. I didn't enslave or discriminate against anyone. Time to move on.
     
  9. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #9
    Yup, I am pretty sure my family wasn't involved in the slave industry, even if they were, it had nothing to do with me. Though AA isn't just because of slavery, it had to do with them not getting a fair shot at things. Though, now white people don't get a fair shot, because of a quota that has to be met. The way I see it, we have a black man in the white house we are beyond the point of AA. Yeah I said it. :p
     
  10. Daffodil macrumors 6502

    Daffodil

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    If anything, make it "affirmative" based on socioeconomic status. Help lift the socioeconomically disadvantaged, regardless of ethnicity.
     
  11. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #11
    I agree. I think AA was needed at the time it was implemented, but its time has come and gone. The point of AA was racial equality, but now it's just turned into reverse discrimination.
     
  12. soco macrumors 68030

    soco

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    #12
    @ those saying they and their ancestors weren't involved in any racism of any sort...

    Yeah, ok kid. ;):rolleyes:
     
  13. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #13
    You're missing the point, do German kids these days own the Jews? They didn't kill the Jews their parents or grandparents did or didn't. Just because Nazi did what they did, doesn't mean all German from then on owe Jewish people something. Not to mention, there were plenty of German who helped the Jews in WWII, and there were plenty of white people who helped black people.
     
  14. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #14
    There are current examples of white people doing very bad things. Just look at how radical the right became during the runup to, and then after the 2008 elections. As an aside, how many minority CEO's and upper level executives are there? If you really think racism and racially motivated efforts to hinder minorities is over, then you might want to pull your head out of your ass the sand.

    Drive through the suburbs sometime. How integrated are the upper-middle class neighborhoods with the lower-middle class neighborhoods? There are definately socio-economic divisions, but as you are driving, you will see separations between races within the separate upper/middle/lower class neighborhoods.

    If you live in a deeply blue area, you will see that those devides are smaller than in areas that are more red.

    I agree with this, and would love to see AA morphed into a system by which the disadvantaged are given the help needed to have the same opportunities as those born of successful parents. That being said, to say AA is unneeded or past its need is naive.
     
  15. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #15
    Bad example as reparations from Nazi atrocities against Jews continue to this day. West Germany had a reparations agreement with Israel that spanned 14 years (starting in 1953) and was important in establishing the state of Israel as it is today. At one point West Germany was paying nearly 90% of their GDP to Israel. Now that's affirmative action. AA today is somewhat of an anachronism and needs to change but there is still lots of underlying racism that prevents underprivileged minority groups from getting a fair shake.
     
  16. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #16
    Doesn't mean the reparations are justified, and that all Germans should be responsible for it.
     
  17. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    There was some opposition to it but, as a nation, they most certainly were responsible. Everyone knew what was going on but since the Jews were such a small percentage of the population, nobody really cared and turned a blind eye. Things like war reparations and AA are also a reminder to not let the current generations slip into the habits of their forefathers. It might not be fair but neither were the original transgressions.
     
  18. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #18
    Again, that's like holding me responsible if my father murders someone. Future generations shouldn't be held accountable for their ancestors.
     
  19. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #19
    I might differ from most but I still support such measures from a university standpoint. For me a university needs to balance equality and some degree of social justice (something that is increasingly difficult when their are under financial pressure).

    As with a few western countries australia managed to steal the land and kill off a large proportion of our indigenous population (and continues to do so). In turn many social problems have ended up being systemic in our entire population. As an example allowing a small number of individuals into a course like medicine to take skills back to their remote communities actually provides a better health for all in the long-term. It's not a large investment in the scheme of things for a positive outcome.
     
  20. diamond.g macrumors 603

    diamond.g

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    #20
    Seems to me that the majority is complaining that the minority is getting a leg up in situations where they feel that the minority shouldn't.
     
  21. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #21

    Exactly, I think it would be better to be judged by your own abilities rather than your skin color, or the "content of their character".
     
  22. soco macrumors 68030

    soco

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    #22
    I think it's you who is missing the point. I'm not trying to demand that you be held responsible for what we as caucasian americans did decades ago.

    On the contrary, I'm holding all of us responsible for the racism that continues in both directions.

    I get it. Your pappy didn't lynch Toby, his neighbor did. Well you know what? When there's a million neighbors killing a million Tobys, we can't go making policies that repair the damages, such as AA, only in the name of those neighbors. Unfortunately (and this is the point) we have to make those policies in the name of us as a group of people that has a lot of really bad apples in it.

    So while you and your ancestry may not be responsible, we as the people who live in a country in which this kind of crap took place, are.

    I agree that it goes both ways. We now live in a time of heavy reverse-racism (a term I'm not fond of because it's a polite way of saying racism against caucasians) and it sucks. There was a terrible imbalance of rights and treatment decades ago. We are now realizing that our attempts to swing things back to balance resulted in another imbalance.

    With time, we'll figure it out.

    To be more to the topic, I agree that things like AA make it hard to be sure we're recruiting for colleges and jobs based on character. But it's just this sort of policy that acts to balance the previous decades' racism. In an effort to do away with this mentality that it arguably no longer necessary, maybe we can go back to just that: recruiting based on character. Maybe we can really start to mean it when we say we don't care what color your skin is.
     
  23. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #23
    Unfortunately racism does not have a reset button. Without AA it would have taken many more generations to get an equal footing. I think a more comparable example is the women's movement. Even after 100 years after women's suffrage, they still are not treated completely equally in society.
     
  24. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #24
    How is AA holding everyone responsible for racism in "Both directions"? If anything it allows for every race to take advantage of white people. (except Indians and Asians for some reason....apparently they are smart or something it has nothing to do with parenting and personal responsibility)

    ----------

    I did say that I think AA did have a time and place. I don't think it's needed anymore.
     
  25. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #25
    Yep. As I said, its an anachronism. I'm not sure if it needs to be eliminated altogether but in needs reworked for sure.
     

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