AHCI drivers in win7 installed, and still no booting into windows!

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Nadav35, Nov 5, 2009.

  1. Nadav35 macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #1
    Yes, I still need help with this. Understand that I am not using any raid at all on my 2008 mac pro. All I want to do is achieve using SATA drives via the ODD ports on my logic board to boot windows. I know it can be done. In case you don't believe me, here is the PROOF that shows I have installed the AHCI drivers successfully in windows: Under IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers, the following exists:
    Intel(R) 631xESB6321ESB/3100 Chipset Serial ATA Storage Controller, and underneath that says the following:
    Intel(R) ESB2 SATA AHCI Controller.

    That said, the matrix control console identifies all my 6 ports correctly. But when I go and hook up my SATA bootcamp hard drive to the ODD_SATA Port on my board, IT DOESN'T BOOT! Why?? I went through all that trouble to install AHCI drivers in bootcamp annd it doesn't boot up at all? Yes, I would like to boot windows via ODD_Ports, but each time I do this it doesn't seem to boot. I am afraid to use a SATA optical drive, as the same thing will happen again. However, it appears that when I am in bootcamp, all my drives are recognized and working.

    What do I need to do to get the ODD_SATA ports to recognize the AHCI during boot up(NOT WHILE IN BOOTCAMP)? I don't understand why it won't boot, after installing the matrix storage drivers for AHCI? I am leaving you with my skype id so you can chat with me on what to do here. Psychomacuser343 is my skype, while nadav333 is my AIM. I really need help here! As I said, I have tried everything, and while the ODD_SATA ports boot on the mac side, Even with the AHCI drivers in bootcamp, can't get bootcamp booted unless I remove it from the ODD_SATA port. Also, I managed to install one sata cable and not needing to mod my case fan.
     
  2. gugucom macrumors 68020

    gugucom

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    Location:
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    #2
    I'm trying to sort through the facts here.

    You are running a 2008 MP with one stock superdrive in IDE and the second ODD bay is fitted with a SATA HDD which is connected to one ODD SATA port by a standard SATA cable. Presumably this HDD is powered by the second Molex power in your ODD bay. The second ODD SATA port is unused.

    In your four HDD bays you are running no RAID array and there is no RAID card installed in your system.

    You have previously mounted the same HDD which is now fitted to ODD SATA in one of your HDD sled ports and you have installed Windows (Version?) and subsequently the AHCI driver by modifying your MBR. You have also installed the Intel matrix storage driver from the executable file. The matrix storage application can be called up from Windows programs. When you have this HDD fitted to a HDD port EFI can see it when you push the option key and it shows you a hard drive which boots into that Windows installation?

    Your problem is booting the same way when the HDD is not fitted to a HDD port but to the ODD SATA port wired to the ODD bay? Do you see the Windows HDD in EFI? Is the failure to boot due to EFI not showing you the Windows drive as bootable or does the Windows drive simply not boot if you select it?

    This sounds indeed like a strange problem if I have described it correctly. Please confirm that this is really what you have and that you can boot OS X from that ODD SATA port. I'm not sure you managed to do that. Please input "diskutil list" in your OS X Terminal with all disks in the same config that You use for your boot trial of Windows from the ODD SATA port. Post the terminal response here.

    I have to say that I never owned a 2008 model and that it has a strange combination of EFI features which have surprised me before. So it is imperative that we understand whether this is an EFI issue or something to do with other parts of the machine.
     
  3. Infrared macrumors 68000

    Infrared

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    #3
    A guess: the drive isn't recognized until AHCI is enabled,
    but the code enabling AHCI resides on the drive. Which
    would be Catch-22.
     
  4. gugucom macrumors 68020

    gugucom

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    #4
    Windows has strange ways of booting. In Vista and Seven it sometimes takes a routing via another drive. If you take that drive out of your system Windows will not boot any more although the boot drive is still present.
     
  5. Nadav35 thread starter macrumors member

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    May 18, 2008
    #5
    This is getting no where.

    I think I am going to retire the mac pro.. it was a bad idea and I am going to get a PC where AHCI will always be standard.
     
  6. Nadav35 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #6
    catch 22 my a**! The thing isn't working!!!!!!

    Ok, this is what I did... I will try to be as simple as I can here.

    I installed the AHCI drivers on my bootcamp drive and they are present and working, or so I think they are as I have no way to test it.

    Then I wanted to experiment before I decide to go out and buy a SATA optical drive. I simply took out one of my PATA optical drives(having connected one sata cable to the ODD_SATA port). Next, I mounted freely on the optical drive bay floor, my bootcamp hard drive which was powered by using the existing molex from my optical drive cable, and plugged in the sata portion into my bootcamp drive.

    Are you with me so far? Good! Ok, while in Mac OS X, I ordered start up disk to start up my bootcamp(already connected to the ODD_SATA port). So far so good, or so I thought.. Then as the screen changes to black temporarily, I get a message saying: MY DRIVE IS NOT BOOTABLE.. PLEASE INSERT A BOOTABLE DEVICE.

    And thats the whole thing summed up. Now, why is it saying not bootable when in fact the AHCI drivers are installed in bootcamp??? I can't figure this out!

    I have asked you many times now if you have SKYPE or AIM where we can talk and I can further explain this to you. These forums are not helping much, as I am in DIRE NEED OF TECHNICAL SUPPORT and I'd rather it be voice.. Here is my information again:

    SKYPE: Psychomacuser343/AIM,Ichat=Nadav333

    PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, HELP ME!!!! Why isn't windows loading from the ODD_SATA port when there is AHCI drivers there and present?!?!? And no, I am not running a raid. I have no need to. As for diskutil list? I have tested one of my drives connected to the ODD_SATA port and installed snow leopard = YES, ITS BOOTABLE!!! My problem is with windows 7, not Mac OS X.
     
  7. Nadav35 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #7
    I don't think this has anything to do with it.

    What do you mean?!?! Please read my private msg to you where I laid out in black and white piece by piece what I did... once again, took out from the hard drive bay my bootcamp windows 7 volume. Then took out one of my optical drives. With the sata apparatus connected to the ODD_SATA port, i then took the other end of the cable and connected it to my bootcamp drive, mounted freely in my optical drive bay. Booted up OS X to set the start up drive for BOOTCAMP - this worked. But, as soon as bootcamp tried to load - BOOM! DEVICE NOT BOOTABLE, NOW WHAT GIVES?!?
     
  8. nanofrog macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #8
    Did you try using a separate drive for Win7 on the ODD_SATA port (no OS X at all)?

    It would help clarify things. If by chance you haven't yet, give it a shot, as BC 3.1 isn't out yet IIRC. Note that if it does work, you'll still have issues with the BT keyboard, as those drivers had to be re-written for Win7 to function properly, and will be part of BC 3.1.

    For now, try the separate disk method. Otherwise, wait until BC 3.1 drops, and see if that helps you (as it's supposed to).
     
  9. gugucom macrumors 68020

    gugucom

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    #9
    The test is very simple. If Win7 starts after the patch and The Intel executable file installs your AHCI installation was good. This HDD should always be bootable with the option key.

    This part I understand. At this point you have one IDE optical drive and one SATA HDD in the drive bay. Your HDD is bootable Win7. At this point I would have expected you to boot pressing the "Alt" option key. After some waiting EFI will show a grey sceen and you should be presented with all your boot options which at this time should include a Windows hard drive symbol. You simply click this on and Windows must boot. If it doesn't do this we need to find out where it fails.


    I don't understand what you are doing there.

    What start up disk are you talking about?
     
  10. gugucom macrumors 68020

    gugucom

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    #10
    Ok, this is a part I understand as well. So you set the Bootcamp HDD which was on the ODD SATA port as boot device in system preferences. Then you booted again and it had this boot failure with the respective message.

    This establishes that your EFI can see your Win7 drive. For some reason the booting fails.

    At this point I believe your problem is in the Win7 boot drive. I would take it out of the optical bay and put it back into a HDD sled. Then try if it boots from there.
     
  11. gugucom macrumors 68020

    gugucom

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    #11
    Nano, from what I have understood Nadav35's problems seem to be related to the Windows and the AHCI installation.

    Using an exclusive HDD for Windows is a good idea.

    It is also sensible to make a complete Bootcamp 3.0 driver installation with no problems indicated in Windows device manager before activating AHCI. Any problem with BC 3.0 should be addressed long before we go into this.

    Then there should be a backup either with the internal Win7 backup or with Winclone. That way you can go back to your bootable Win7 if a patch goes wrong.

    It is unclear at this point whether the Win7 drives only fails to boot from ODD SATA or also from a HDD port. If the failure is the same from both ports he needs to go back to his backup and patch the drive from scratch.

    If it only fails from the ODD SATA things would be more difficult.
     
  12. Infrared macrumors 68000

    Infrared

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    #12
    When you boot off a Windows partition, Apple's EFI firmware puts the
    controller into legacy IDE mode before the MBR code is executed.
    Once that happens, the drive connected to the ODD_SATA port is no
    longer visible. Sounds reasonable?
     
  13. gugucom macrumors 68020

    gugucom

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    #13
    As far as I know it is an interaction of Windows with BIOS. Windows decides between Legacy, AHCI and RAID mode for devices which can go into alternative configs. It normally expects a BIOS command to determine which mode it assumes. If no command is issued it defaults to legacy.

    With a properly patched drive the MBR tells Windows to go into AHACI mode and if the right driver is found the device will do this. EFI has no influence, except that it is needed to actually boot. If for some reason the boot fails all together then the fault can be found in EFI. But in this case the booting starts but Windows is unable to find a drive with suitable driver to boot.

    So the first debug measure should be booting the Windows drive from a port that requires no AHCI mode. If the boot works and the Mac runs in legacy mode the fault is found. Incorrect patch. If it boots and is obviously in correct AHCI mode the problem would be bigger. The 2008 model could work fundamentally different than the 2006, 2007 and 2009 models which have all been found to work correctly with the patch. The probability for this should be fairly low, but we do not know at this time. The OP is not doing the tests.
     
  14. nanofrog macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #14
    From what I've seen, Win7-64 has had problems working with BC 3.0, and BC 3.1 is claimed to fix the issues.

    Nadav35's original method was to use OS X and Win7 via BC on an ODD_SATA port. I recommended the attempt at a Win7 installation only (separate the OS's to different disks) as the best solution, even if BC 3.1 works. It saves other potential issues IMO. ;)

    The AHCI drivers can be loaded either during the initial installation, or later via a Registry entry. I've done it both ways, depending if it was a clean install, or changing an existing one.

    But as BC 3.0 has issues with Win7, I took the approach that it needed to be eliminated from the equation. BC 3.1 may be another story, but it's not out yet. So the only option I see that can be done now, is a separate disk installation. Otherwise, wait for BC 3.1, and see how that fares.

    Applicable, but it's after getting the OS to install correctly, and make sure it will boot (separate disk method). If all goes well, then make a backup or clone, which is more of a necessity IMO, than an option. ;)

    At this point, I don't think there's anything valid to make a backup/clone from with Win7. It's never been able to boot into Win7 so far, so I consider it an invalid installation.

    I agree. This is what I'm not certain of either, and it needs to be determined.

    Unfortunately, he was panicked last we communicated, and objectivity has gone out the window (understandably, but it's needed). Perhaps sleep has helped, as this may take multiple experimental attempts to narrow it down and solve it. ;)

    AFAIK, Apple's firmware is fixed to Legacy mode in the '08's, and can't be changed by the user or an application. After the boot process, it can be changed by "brute force", which is what the manual installation of AHCI drivers do within Windows.

    It's worked for XP and Vista on those machines, and both could be done on a separate disk off the ODD_SATA ports. The MBR methodology is the same as Vista as I understand it, so it should work this way. BC is what seemed to be the problem.

    But I'm not sure if the separate drive method was tried (or if so, properly). I sent him an extracted, then zipped copy of the AHCI drivers on Intel's site last night/early this morning.

    Windows doesn't "choose". In most systems, they user can set it in the system's firmware, and the OS follows that setting. EFI's no different in this respect.

    The other method of course, is to manually install the drivers to force the method needed. I've actually run into this, even though the board was capable of Legacy, AHCI, or RAID settings. It had to do with the SATA optical drive wouldn't work in AHCI or RAID mode, and was forced to use Legacy (earlier firmware for the drive IIRC). That's since changed.

    Yep. EFI loads it's default of Legacy mode (done btw, due to the fact the IDE ports and that pair of SATA ports are tied to the same setting, otherwise the IDE ports can't boot), then the patch forces AHCI mode later.

    They fixed the the Legacy tying issue with the '09's by eliminating the IDE ports all together, so you've not had to fight this one on your current system. ;) Much easier to deal with, though it costs users a SATA port for the optical drive.

    Yes, but it means the experiment needs to be done without BC (separate drive). This was the initial issue from what I could determine by the information given via AIM chat.
     
  15. gugucom macrumors 68020

    gugucom

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    #15
    Bootcamp really consists of two pieces. One is the partition utility and the second is the driver collection.

    Many people think the partition utility only works for installing multiple partitions on a drive so that OS X and Windows both have a partition. It is a popular misconception. The utility can perfectly partition your drive for Windows only. I agree that this mode is an advantage when you are working on a Mac Pro with multiple drives. You make fewer mistakes and it provides a clear structure. But it is by no means a necessity for an AHCI patch. More important is that it is completely Apple conform as it runs on a GUID partition table. The use of an MBR partition table is not really an advantage on a Mac.

    The Bootcamp 3.0 driver suite has some bugs which will be fixed but I see those primarily with the compatibility mode, the HFS and the MNT drivers. Those are causing BSDs and XP SP3 hang ups. I do not believe 3.1 will bring any benefits to activating the AHCI mode for the ODD SATA ports.
     
  16. gugucom macrumors 68020

    gugucom

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    #16
    In Windows the 2009 Mac Pro model works exactly the same with regard to the legacy mode as the 2006 and 2007 did. The superdrive still boots in simulated IDE mode although it uses a SATA port.

    If you want to use the spare ODD SATA drive to boot Windows you still have to set the system to AHCI mode. No difference there.

    The main difference is that Windows now sees a 2 port device and a 4 port device where in the 2006 model there was one 6 port SATA device.

    In the 2009 model the AHCI driver has to be applied to the 4 port device. If you do it to the wrong device or to both you get a BSD.
     
  17. nanofrog macrumors G4

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    #17
    I know BC contains drivers (and software, such as remapping of keys).

    But I also recall being able to run a separate disk without the need to run BC's partition utility prior to loading the Win install disk. Once Windows was installed, the BC disk was used to load drivers,... specific to that system. It worked with Vista-64 on an ODD-SATA port anyway. That was the reason for suggesting a separate drive method.

    My only reason for mentioning waiting for BC 3.1, was:
    1. If he wanted to share OS X and Win7 on the same drive.
    2. Updated BT drivers (and possibly other's I'm not aware of) that work with Win7 (apparently the current version of BT isn't stable in Win7).

    From the software side, yes. But in the older systems, priority was given via hardware to the IDE ports (think boot sequence).

    I know, and have tried to explain that the drivers must be loaded during the Win boot process in order to force AHCI mode. Then it continues to boot. If not, it will stall out, and what seems is going on with what ever's actually been tried by Nadav35.

    Which is why I'm hoping for a clear explaination of what's been tried. There's even the possibility that a step was skipped, and the AHCI drivers never actually loaded (I'm certainly not discounting this).

    Yes. It's that way on the ICH10R with any system. But it's not noticed often with the PC boards, as individuals can run the ports to the drives of their choice, and as most boot drives are attached within the first set (4 port grouping).

    I hadn't tried this, so wasn't aware it was occuring. But in the case of Nadav35, it's irrelevant, as it's an '08. ;)

    So lets not add to the confusion ATM, though it's an interesting issue for discussion. ;)
     
  18. Nadav35 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #18
    I Give Up!!

    I Will Gladly Pay Someone $150.00 If They Can Skype Me Or Im Me And Help Me To Get Those Blasted Odd Ports To Boot Into Windows.. For The Last Time, I Prefer It This Way As I Can Greatly Explain Better Through Voice, Rather Than Words...

    Skype: Psychomacuser343
    Aim: Nadav333

    Please Help Me!!! $150.00 I Am Willing To Pay!!!!!!
     
  19. BHamilton macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Location:
    Canada
    #19
    Can someone clarify - does this 'mod' activate the ODD ports under Bootcamp as well (on an early-2008 for example)?

    It sounds to me that this is simply changing mode to AHCI for the 4 bays and does not affect the ODD ports.

    Thanks
     
  20. gugucom macrumors 68020

    gugucom

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    #20
    The 2008 has a 5000 chipset featuring an ESB2 device with six ports. This is identical to the 2006 and 2007 Mac Pro. The only difference is the EFI64 where the earlier models had EFI32. It would be strange indeed if the AHCI patch would not work on the ODD-SATA ports. It does so on the 2009 model as well which has a 5500 chipset with a ICH10R device.

    Could someone with a 2008 Mac Pro confirm that he/she has Windows working on the ODD-SATA ports?
     
  21. BHamilton macrumors newbie

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    #21

    The reason I ask is because I see two entries in device manager for ATA controllers. I don't know which one is which. :confused:

    Here is my early-2008 list of devices:

    [​IMG]
     
  22. gugucom macrumors 68020

    gugucom

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    #22
    You appear to have Windows run in legacy mode. The upper device is the IDE controller and the lower device is the SATA controller in legacy mode.

    I assume this is running on one of the HDD ports?
     
  23. BHamilton macrumors newbie

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    #23
    Yes. I have not made any changes to the MBR/drivers/etc. This is simply a plain install of Windows 7 with the O/S drive in Bay 1.

    I want to try this mod, however, I have some RAID questions I need to post first.
     
  24. gugucom macrumors 68020

    gugucom

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    #24
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=8231724&postcount=1

     
  25. nanofrog macrumors G4

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    May 6, 2008
    #25
    It didn't work with Win7-64 (Ultimate ed.), so maybe not. It's fine in an HDD bay, so it's either something really strange with Win7, or the firmware difference has cut that ability in the '08's.

    I seem to recall that XP and Vista did work with the ODD_SATA ports though. Maybe my memory is faulty on this one.
     

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