Alan Keyes among 22 arrested at Notre Dame Obama protest

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by leekohler, May 8, 2009.

  1. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #1
    Not sure how I feel about this. Universities have rules of course, but it seems to me that they should have been able to protest.

    http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/...-arrested-at-notre-dame-in-obama-protest.html
     
  2. TuffLuffJimmy macrumors G3

    TuffLuffJimmy

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    #2
    If the university doesn't want them there they have every right to tell them to leave. Although I do find it very interesting that a former senator was involved in this debacle. No one should be above the law.
     
  3. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    I certainly have a very low opinion of Alan Keyes. He's a nasty human being who disowned his daughter because she's a lesbian. It doesn't surprise me he was involved in the least. He's probably loving the publicity.

    However, it seems to me that there should have been some way they could have protested.
     
  4. Ntombi macrumors 68030

    Ntombi

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    #4
    Thankfully, he was never a senator. :)

    As for their policy, I think it's appropriate that protests on college campus should be spearheaded by a student group. I have no problem with random people not being allowed on private property to protest something.

    And there are ways for them to protest, just not on Notre Dame's property. When I was a student, there were often protests by the idiots of Westboro Baptist "Church," because Oberlin was just too damned liberal for them. They were allowed to gather on public property and "protest" to their hearts' content, but not on the campus proper.
     
  5. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #5
    I think that's pretty standard during a protest, to be arrested on trespassing charges.

    As long as the university is applying the standard universally, I don't see a problem. It's no different from the Democratic lawmakers who were arrested last week or the week before at the Darfur protest.
     
  6. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #6
  7. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    Yeah, I guess you're right. Good publicity stunt for Keyes, I guess.
     
  8. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #8
    Private university and Keyes is not a student. The university could very well say that anyone besides students, faculty and staff are not allowed on the campus.
     
  9. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #9
    It's private property. They are within their rights to eject, or arrest, trespassers who refuse to leave the premises.

    Would I allow Alan to occupy my Condo? I don't think so. :mad:
     
  10. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #10
    The issue of free speech rights on college campuses has been a fascinating issue for me over the last year.

    It's not at all uncommon to find rather strict and frankly draconian regulations on acts of expression on campuses, including public institutions. In fact such regulations were invented as a direct response to the student protests during the 1960s. My own university has a handful of designated "free speech zones" around campus, which are free to just about anybody who wants to use them, but it requires prior authorization through the office of the dean of students. In theory, university officials are not permitted to discriminate based on the content of the material to be presented but in practice, selective enforcement of the rules has occurred in a handful of instances in my experience.

    Over the last year, numerous individuals and student organizations have formed a "free speech coalition" with the aim of changing our university's current policy. Two points of which we consider non-negotiable are the abolition of "free speech zones" and the requirement of prior authorization before acts of expression on campus. There's been a petition drive, numerous demonstrations, negotiations with university officials and a fair bit of media coverage. Unfortunately the process has been mired in bureaucracy, but hopefully the new policy should be in effect by the end of the summer, which would deem all public areas on campus "traditional public forums" open to use by everyone without permission.

    Several members in the free speech coalition have simply refused to abide by the university's current policy, and instead simply demonstrate in public areas whenever they please. For the most part, university officials haven't actually enforced the current policy, but on a few occasions there have been some rather tense moments between students and administrators attempting to enforce the policy.

    The fact that this is a private institution adds a twist. Nonetheless, college campuses, by their very nature as institutions of the accumulation of knowledge, personal growth, etc., necessitate the free exchange of ideas. My view is that the strict regulation on freedom of expression is an unacceptable impediment on such exchange, and in this regard I remain unconvinced that any distinction should be made between public and private institutions.
     
  11. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #11
    I applaud free speech on college campuses, for those enrolled at the college.
     
  12. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #12
    In other words, only those who pay thousands of dollars have the right to express themselves.

    What about an individual who happens by some sort of student demonstration against war, or abortion, or any number of topics that people want to talk about. If said individual is not a student, must they continue walking, or can they join in if they feel compelled to do so? If they have to keep walking, how would you enforce such a rule?

    What about university employees who wish to have a unionization drive? Must they pay thousands in tuition before they are allowed to organize themselves?
     
  13. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    They have other avenues open for their use. Why Notre Dame???
     
  14. TuffLuffJimmy macrumors G3

    TuffLuffJimmy

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    #14
    So a private university shouldn't have the right to have protesters (who don't go to the school, or work there) removed from their property? By that logic anyone should be able to hold protests on your front lawn.
     
  15. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #15
    I don't think so. Surely you can tell the difference between an institution where thousands of people gather to work, research, learn, teach, exchange ideas, etc., and an individual's front lawn.

    A private school is, for all intents and purposes, a "public" institution. It is a place where people gather to do all the things I mentioned above. The word "private", in this instance, indicates that a school does not receive money from the state. With all else being equal with a public school, explain to me why the absence of state funds should make any difference.
     
  16. TuffLuffJimmy macrumors G3

    TuffLuffJimmy

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    Because it is privately run and has little to do with the state. That's ridiculous that you don't think they should be allowed to have their own policies.
     
  17. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #17
    Because Obama is the commencement speaker at Notre Dame and Keyes is an extreme nutjob who thinks Obama is a baby killing Kenyan born Muslim communist.
     
  18. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #18
    Good God, that statement is awe-inspiring. [​IMG]
     
  19. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #19
    Yeah, I really wish I was joking, but I'm not. He has called Obama all of those things.

    I think he's just bitter because Obama kicked his ass in the Illinois senate race
     
  20. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #20
    Not to mention all the free press they can get by creating a stink about getting kicked off the campus.
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #21
    Isn't that the point of just about every protest? To attempt to draw attention (aka "free press") to a cause?
     
  22. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #22
    I don't agree with the having to get permission to protest part of it on a public campus, but I do agree that they need to zone the protests, universities are first and foremost places of learning, it is disruptive to the process if people are chanting outside of your classroom.
     
  23. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #23
    I agree with this too. It seems there should have been some way to accommodate them. However, they also should have to notify the university and get permission beforehand.
     
  24. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #24
    The only problem I see with having to get permission is that the school may not allow for one side of the issue to protest at all. As long as it was done fairly I don't see a problem with having to notify/get permission.
     
  25. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #25
    Okay, so a private school has the legal right to arrest someone for trespassing when they're protesting. For argument's sake, let's assume that's true.

    I know Keyes is pretty polarizing, and that the President was on campus, but just for a minute take the individuals out of it and think about it just on principle.

    Does an institution like a university really want to silence one side of an issue by not allowing a peaceable protest? Should the folks running the university be aware that this could come across like silencing one side of an argument, and therefore endorsing the other side?

    This sounds like another of those "yes, it's legal; but it's not necessarily a good idea" things.
     

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