Albuquerque Police shoot and kill homeless man

SoAnyway

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 10, 2011
476
179
A video of Albuquerque Police shooting and killing a homeless man for "illegally camping" was released last week.

The video shows a homeless man, James Boyd, being ordered by several police officers at gunpoint to vacate the foothills he was camping at. The video shows Boyd complying with the police and begins to gather his belongings. The officers fire a flash grenade, Boyd drops everything then stands there, turns his back, and the officers open fire. To add insult to injury, the officers fire beanbag rounds and send their dog at him while he is on the ground AFTER their initial assault.


Warning, extremely graphic video:



After watching this and you're still not convinced that we live in a police state and the police who supposedly swear to protect and serve the public get away with murder among other crimes, I don't know what it will take. On top of that, how can anyone defend the police after seeing this fine example of shooting a man while complying with the police?


Huffington Post - Police Shoot Homeless Man During Camping Arrest
 

TechGod

macrumors 68040
Feb 25, 2014
3,163
840
New Zealand
This is disgusting.

Thank god my country is so much more tougher on the police if they even attempt to do that and the police here actually do protect us.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
It's hard to describe the guy as complying with police when he pulls a knife.

I do agree with you that this is excessive use of force. They had no reason to shoot him at that moment, they could have continued to negotiate with him in an attempt to get him to surrender peacefully. No one was in immediate danger at that point.

I will however disagree with your conclusion that this is an indication of living in a police state. That assessment IMO is an overstatement.

And yes. It is disgusting to watch. I hear there are protests in NM. I hope some justice is served here.
 

Jesla

macrumors 6502a
Jan 7, 2013
535
159
Tennessee USA
This is why you never bring a knife, or two in this case, to a gun fight....
Still they could have bean bagged him and saved the lead for some real
criminals.
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
17,019
16,465
The Misty Mountains
Self indictment for the use of excessive force. Unacceptable. Apparently these "police" had no patience to defuse the situation in peaceful manner.
 

jnpy!$4g3cwk

macrumors 65816
Feb 11, 2010
1,100
1,293
It's hard to describe the guy as complying with police when he pulls a knife.

I do agree with you that this is excessive use of force. They had no reason to shoot him at that moment, they could have continued to negotiate with him in an attempt to get him to surrender peacefully. No one was in immediate danger at that point.

I will however disagree with your conclusion that this is an indication of living in a police state. That assessment IMO is an overstatement.

And yes. It is disgusting to watch. I hear there are protests in NM. I hope some justice is served here.
I have to disagree with your assessment. I think it is much worse.
 

Tomorrow

macrumors 604
Mar 2, 2008
7,114
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Always a day away
Apparently these "police" had no patience to defuse the situation in peaceful manner.
You read the article, right? The one where it says the guy argued with the cops for THREE HOURS leading up to this part of the video? How much patience, exactly, should be expected to round up a single homeless guy camping where he isn't supposed to?

I'd love to have seen/heard what went on in the previous three hours. I'm curious whether the guy made any threats during that time, or if his pulling a knife when he did was his first act of aggression.

Also, I'm not sure what your intended meaning is behind putting "police" in quotes - they are, in fact, police.

EDIT: From a link in the original article:

During Friday’s press conference, Chief Eden released video of the moment when officers first contacted Boyd. When one officer went to frisk Boyd, the homeless camper could then be heard refusing to comply, saying he was a government agent. The video shows Boyd continued to refuse officer commands and began threatening their lives.

“I’m almost going to kill you right now. Don’t give me another directive. Don’t attempt to give me, the Department of Defense, another directive,” said Boyd at the beginning of the incident.

As the hours passed, Chief Eden said an APD Crisis Intervention Team officer and a State Police liaison were called to the scene. Both attempted to speak with Boyd, however, Chief Eden says Boyd continued to threaten officers with death. Police also discovered that Boyd had a violent 20-year criminal history that included multiple incidents of violence against officers. Boyd’s history also showed years of mental health related concerns.

Video shows when officers moved in on Boyd around 7:30 p.m on the night of the shooting. At the beginning of incident, Boyd can be heard saying, “In a private world, if you were down at a bar or a bus stop, I would have the right to kill you right now because you’re trying to take me over. Don’t get stupid with me!”
Seems the original article "overlooked" this info. Seems to shed some light, IMO.
 
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jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2013
682
38,936
Criminal Mexi Midget
It's hard to describe the guy as complying with police when he pulls a knife.

I do agree with you that this is excessive use of force. They had no reason to shoot him at that moment, they could have continued to negotiate with him in an attempt to get him to surrender peacefully. No one was in immediate danger at that point.

I will however disagree with your conclusion that this is an indication of living in a police state. That assessment IMO is an overstatement.

And yes. It is disgusting to watch. I hear there are protests in NM. I hope some justice is served here.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-protesters-clash-as-albuquerque-demo-turns-violent/
Protesters took to the streets in the early afternoon and stayed out late Sunday after authorities declared an unlawful assembly. People are angry over Albuquerque police's involvement in 37 shootings, 23 of them fatal since 2010. Critics say that's far too many for a department serving a city of about 555,000.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/david-eckert-enema-colonoscopy-drugs-traffic-stop_n_4218320.html

David Eckert Appears To Clench His Buttocks; Cops Order Enemas, Colonoscopy, X-Ray For Non-Existent Drugs
sure seems like a police state, cops raping men/women in the name of "cavity search" all with local govt support.
 

Moyank24

macrumors 601
Aug 31, 2009
4,334
2,421
in a New York State of mind
You read the article, right? The one where it says the guy argued with the cops for THREE HOURS leading up to this part of the video? How much patience, exactly, should be expected to round up a single homeless guy camping where he isn't supposed to?

I'd love to have seen/heard what went on in the previous three hours. I'm curious whether the guy made any threats during that time, or if his pulling a knife when he did was his first act of aggression.

Also, I'm not sure what your intended meaning is behind putting "police" in quotes - they are, in fact, police.

EDIT: From a link in the original article:



Seems the original article "overlooked" this info. Seems to shed some light, IMO.
In the wake of this incident and others like it, it certainly seems like our law enforcement officers need more (or better) training dealing with the mentally ill.

He was outnumbered, outgunned, and in a vulnerable position on that hill. Was the use of deadly force really necessary?
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
2,327
10,233
Scotland
In the wake of this incident and others like it, it certainly seems like our law enforcement officers need more (or better) training dealing with the mentally ill.

He was outnumbered, outgunned, and in a vulnerable position on that hill. Was the use of deadly force really necessary?
When I first saw this I thought that the police were firing bean bags and/or tasers. But it appears he might have been shot by bullets. If so, I just can't see how that could be justified. I think perhaps if they had a psychiatric social worker (or psychiatrist) there they might have avoided this.

Anyway, this just reinforces my relief that we have the right to roam in Scotland, and that our police do not carry firearms routinely.

EDIT: I didn't realise they used lethal rounds on this guy - thought they were only firing bean bags.
 
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NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,983
Threats or not, deadly force should only be used in the case of immediate fatal danger to the officers. A man turning his back on them and starting to walk away is not a threat. Firing those rounds into him is simply murder.

After three hours there is no "well he had a violent past", there was a man on a rock with a knife. He was not a superhuman, not going to fire laser beams out of his eyes, all he had was a knife and the cops shot at him from over 10 feet away when the man turned his back. Murder.

But hey, badges don't get held accountable. Just a few weeks on the desk duty with pay while the "investigation" clears them.
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
2,327
10,233
Scotland
Actually looking at the video again, I wonder if a bullet injured the man's spine so he could not control his arms and therefore could not release the knives. I do wish the police would be trained about the neural effect of tasers, bullets, bean bags, stun grenades etc. on the ability of the nervous system to control voluntary movements. I just do not see how this was justified.
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
17,019
16,465
The Misty Mountains
You read the article, right?
Actually I just watched the video and a guy who was not armed with a firearm who was not cooperating. They could of bean bagged him into submission, really. And as he had not made a move towards them, they got tired of messing with him and gunned him down. And after he is laying there mortally wounded, then they decide to beanbag him? This was excessive force imo.
 

Tomorrow

macrumors 604
Mar 2, 2008
7,114
1,246
Always a day away
He was outnumbered, outgunned, and in a vulnerable position on that hill. Was the use of deadly force really necessary?
Necessary? Perhaps not.

Reasonable? Under the circumstances (having just spent the previous three hours threatening to kill the officers), perhaps so.

Actually I just watched the video and a guy who was not armed with a firearm who was not cooperating. They could of bean bagged him into submission, really. And as he had not made a move towards them, they got tired of messing with him and gunned him down. And after he is laying there mortally wounded, then they decide to beanbag him? This was excessive force imo.
Maybe. But the video linked in the OP doesn't show the three hours of footage where he continually threatened to kill those cops. Now I've never endured three solid hours of having my life threatened, but it's not hard for me to imagine that it just might change my mindset a bit. Perhaps even to the point where I'd feel even more threatened by a guy pulling a knife than I might normally feel.

I'm just pointing out that the original post isn't telling the whole story, and you bought into it.
 

Moyank24

macrumors 601
Aug 31, 2009
4,334
2,421
in a New York State of mind
Necessary? Perhaps not.

Reasonable? Under the circumstances (having just spent the previous three hours threatening to kill the officers), perhaps so.
.
Again, even more of a necessity for police officers to receive training in dealing with mentally ill offenders. The Flash bang may have agitated him even more than he already was - if they were trained properly that is something they may have taken into consideration. But again, I find it hard to believe that multiple police officers couldn't find a more reasonable way to arrest one man with a knife (or two).
 

TheAppleFairy

macrumors 68030
Mar 28, 2013
2,500
1,935
The Clinton Archipelago unfortunately
I would appear that police are expected to have an arsenal of lethal and non-lethal weapons on them at all times. Maybe they should all be pushing a cart full of bean bags, pepper spray, tasers, maybe a baseball bat and fuzzy handcuffs too.

Or if we have obese cops, we can have pistol belts that are big enough to hold all these items.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
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You read the article, right? The one where it says the guy argued with the cops for THREE HOURS leading up to this part of the video? How much patience, exactly, should be expected to round up a single homeless guy camping where he isn't supposed to?
When the other option is shooting him?

Do you really believe there's a time-limit to apply to a person's life?

Three hours is up. Time to start shooting. He is only a homeless man after all.
 

Moyank24

macrumors 601
Aug 31, 2009
4,334
2,421
in a New York State of mind
When he spends that time threatening to kill you and then draws a weapon, I think it's reasonable to react.
Maybe we're just seeing different things in the video - but it looked to me that he had picked up all of his stuff and was walking towards the officers when they hit him with the flash bang. It was after that where he escalated his behavior (and drew or tried to draw a weapon) - Probably because a mentally ill man is not going to react well to a loud burst of light flying towards him.

And while it may have been "reasonable" to react, I still believe the use of deadly force, when they had other options available to them, was unreasonable.
 

Peace

macrumors Core
Apr 1, 2005
19,464
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Space--The ONLY Frontier
This is outright murder. Gutless cops with night vision goggles,military style clothing. Both with high powered rifles against one mentally ill guy. They could have just tazed him but no they had to just murder him.

Anything else is just denial and complacent zombies who don't recognize the police state we live in.

Sick..Plain old sick..

This is defining the current generation. Our military went to two countries as outlaws and came back like this.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,983
Maybe we're just seeing different things in the video - but it looked to me that he had picked up all of his stuff and was walking towards the officers when they hit him with the flash bang.
Flash bang, facing them.

Turns his back two minutes later, bullets.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
When he spends that time threatening to kill you and then draws a weapon, I think it's reasonable to react.
The reasonable reaction to a man standing a distance away, holding a knife, while at least two policemen are aiming guns at him is to say, "Drop the knife! Drop the knife!"

Not to immediately shoot him.

----------

Anything else is just denial and complacent zombies who don't recognize the police state we live in.
I guess that makes me a complacent zombie.

I differentiate between occurrences of excessive force and the pervasive control and oppression alluded to by the term, "police state".
 

thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
6,667
1,738
Maybe. But the video linked in the OP doesn't show the three hours of footage where he continually threatened to kill those cops. Now I've never endured three solid hours of having my life threatened, but it's not hard for me to imagine that it just might change my mindset a bit. Perhaps even to the point where I'd feel even more threatened by a guy pulling a knife than I might normally feel.

I'm just pointing out that the original post isn't telling the whole story, and you bought into it.
I hate it when articles leave those kinds of details out. It doesn't require biased reporting to show their collective incompetence. Being threatened would influence me too, yet they are there in larger numbers with training. I would probably be useless in that situation. If they aren't any better, why do we have them?
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
17,019
16,465
The Misty Mountains
Maybe. But the video linked in the OP doesn't show the three hours of footage where he continually threatened to kill those cops. Now I've never endured three solid hours of having my life threatened, but it's not hard for me to imagine that it just might change my mindset a bit. Perhaps even to the point where I'd feel even more threatened by a guy pulling a knife than I might normally feel.

I'm just pointing out that the original post isn't telling the whole story, and you bought into it.
After thinking about this, if he threatened to kill them for 3 hours, and wielded a knife, really all bets are off. My original opinion was based on viewing the video and in my non-police background opinion, they should of used the bean bag on him/ stepped up their aggressiveness after 15 minutes or however long it took to figure out that he would not cooperate with them. My guess is after 3 hours of frustration, they said **** it and killed him.

From my arm chair position, it's still poor judgement for the camera to shoot a mortally wounded person in the butt with beanbags expecting him to react to their commands at that point. I strongly feel they got that part backwards- bean bags first, bullets second for someone who is not wielding a gun. What really seemed odd is that after shooting this guy, and he was on the ground expiring, the police were so hesitant to approach him, like he was going to explode or pop back up and stab one of them. Every real or tv encounter that I've seen, they always swoop in and secure the perp unless a bomb is suspected.

I'm curious for those reading this thread, what if the individual was mentally ill? Should the police have found another way to deal with this if that was the case? Just curious.
 
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Peace

macrumors Core
Apr 1, 2005
19,464
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Space--The ONLY Frontier
I guess that makes me a complacent zombie.

I differentiate between occurrences of excessive force and the pervasive control and oppression alluded to by the term, "police state".
The Nazi's would walk up to a person and ask for their papers. In the new world they ask for your drivers license.

Nazi's used to stand around every corner. In the new world there is no need to stand around corners due to cameras being there.

Nazi's used to kick doors in and drag people away. In the new world they still kick doors in but instead of dragging people away they just shoot if something looks out of place to them.

Instead of wearing brown shirts they all wear military clothing.

Nazi's would monitor certain citizens.In the new world the NSA monitors everybody.

In my mind that is a police state and overly oppressive .