Alternative Facts:"US solar power employs more people than oil, coal and gas combined, report shows"

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by SteveJobzniak, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. SteveJobzniak, Jan 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017

    SteveJobzniak Suspended

    SteveJobzniak

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    #1
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...trump-green-energy-fossil-fuels-a7541971.html

    alternativefacts.png

    Alleged "Journalists" yet again revealing their sickening, divisive bias and idiocy.

    People have actually lost their ****ing minds. Apparently if you feel something to be true nowadays, it "must be true". And "screw the facts".

    They cherry-pick what they like, and ignore and suppress conflicting information to craft their narratives.

    This is why this world is ****ed. All humans have strongly polarized opinions about the election, and so-called "journalists" are mere humans too and are not exempt from their massive biases. They all stretch the truth so much - everything in the newspapers is bullsh-t. They push it around like dung beetles and pat each other on the back in their fake news echo chambers.

    I can't even begin to comprehend how radical political activists are allowed to keep jobs where they are labeled "Unbiased Journalists". How the hell do you arrive at a headline of "US solar power employs more people than oil, coal and gas combined, report shows"? Read the actual report:

    Most of America's electricity comes from:

    energy.png

    And as for "US solar power employs more people than oil, coal and gas combined, report shows"? What does the actual report show? The one they are "reporting" from and drawing their headline from? Well...

    In Table 1. Generation and Fuels Employment by Sub-Technology
    (TOTAL EMPLOYMENT) Solar - 373,807. Coal - 160,119. Natural Gas - 362,118. Oil/Petroleum - 515,518.

    You can read the actual report here (as opposed to the liberal fake news in the dying legacy media): https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2017/01/f34/2017 US Energy and Jobs Report_0.pdf

    Mainstream Media... you really need to stop faking news and using "alternative facts" to push your political agenda. Or we will have to keep calling out your bullsh-t and lies over and over. It's going to be a long 4 years if you don't stop lying. Your lies only impress the left. At the rate they're showing their true colors, my prediction is that the legacy media corporations will soon completely lose any remaining credibility and be discarded as the human trash they are.

    Look at the fake news above, and then think about this fact for a moment: The radical political activists in the media are intentionally deceiving the public to manufacture hatred and push a political agenda, and they are dividing this country. That's scary on its own, but even more frightening is the amount of useful idiots that will take this misinformation and use it to justify their own hatred when they beat up an elderly Trump supporter, burn cars, torture and cut a disabled white boy for being white, vandalize political offices, burn churches and other staged "hate crimes" to fuel anti-white hatred, or attempt to grab a cops' gun to shoot Trump or someone they "think is some kind of White Supremacist or something" (he is in critical condition after the gunshot). Or perhaps most importantly of all; when the useful idiots use their media-manufactured hatred to label all Trump voters "idiotic white supremacists" on MacRumors... ;-)

    So yeah... divisive mainstream news with their fake news and "alternative facts"... what a sh-t show. They cannot be allowed to keep dividing the nation and spewing their corrosive lies. It makes me wonder if they're anarchists and want to see America burn, or whatever the hell their motivation is.
     
  2. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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  3. SteveJobzniak, Jan 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017

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    SteveJobzniak

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    #3
    Uhm. You're usually clever and I kinda like you. So did you even read what you just posted? Is that how anti-Trumpers "read" the news? It would explain a lot. The media preys on people who just want Trump to be a bad guy. The default narrative everywhere these days is "Trump is evil". ;-)

    I'll circle it for you. It's in the middle of your mostly-blank page so I have no idea how you missed it:

    circle.png

    Anyway, open up the report (https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2017/01/f34/2017 US Energy and Jobs Report_0.pdf) and search for "515,518". You'll get one result; "Table 1. Generation and Fuels Employment by Sub-Technology".
     
  4. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    Does it make sense to only look at generation when the report literally says "However, to make accurate employment comparisons between different sectors, it is necessary to combine the Generation and Fuels sectors.". This sounds especially true for solar since there is no fuel.

    It also says "Proportionally, solar employment accounts for the largest share of workers in the Electric Power Generation sector. This is largely due to the construction related to the significant buildout of new solar generation capacity" which makes sense since expanding capacity would create short term jobs. I think meaningful comparison would separate out short and long term jobs.
     
  5. chfilm macrumors 65816

    chfilm

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    #5
    Why do you call it fake news? All they did was summing up a GOVERNMENT REPORT, publicized under trumps very own government. Take a very deep breath and stop bullying journalists for doing their goddamn job. The disbelief in the media is the biggest thread for democracy these days.

    lol your post is so hilariously paranoid and angrily and written in a biased way, that at first I thought it was irony. But you actually mean it. Sad story.
     
  6. SteveJobzniak, Jan 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017

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    SteveJobzniak

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    #6
    Because it is completely fake news. Not a single shred of the headline is true.

    Fake News Headline: "US solar power employs more people than oil, coal and gas combined, report shows".

    Actual Report: "In Table 1. Generation and Fuels Employment by Sub-Technology: (TOTAL EMPLOYMENT) Solar - 373,807. Coal - 160,119. Natural Gas - 362,118. Oil/Petroleum - 515,518." And a massive chunk of solar is short-term jobs during construction, after which there are no more jobs.

    The blood from the hatred and division that the media generates and fuels at every chance is on their hands:

    sad state of the nation.jpg
     
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #7
    While the headline of the story may be overly broad, the context for the claim is provided in the subhead and body of the story. The claim regards the Electric Power Generation sector, which is separate from the Fuel sector highlighted by the OP.

    The claim is true and backed up by the government report.

    The OP's anger appears misplaced. And his questioning of others' ability to read is ironic.
     
  8. Nefilim Suspended

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    #8
    FUnny to see what kind of people whine about "divisive"...
     
  9. SteveJobzniak, Jan 24, 2017
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    SteveJobzniak

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    #9
    @citizenzen That's a very disingenuous way of looking at the report. Reading a report on "Electric Power Generation and Fuels" and chopping out "Fuels" to only focus on how many people are working at the final electrical power generation plants (and ignoring employment at the coal mines, oil drills and gas reservoirs that provide fuel for those plants)!? That's bizarre and deceptive! And as if fuel jobs aren't more important than pure electricity. Like them or not, fuels are used for a lot more than just filling up a gas tank. They're vital ingredients in other industries and products. We can't live without them.

    Here are the problems with looking at only the employment at the electrical plants:

    1. Solar power is terrible. I welcome our solar overlords the day the panels are more effective. Solar produced just 0.6% of US electricity in 2015, compared to 4.7% for wind and 33% for coal and 33% for natural gas. For now, I prefer nuclear since it generates a massive amount of energy in a tiny amount of space, and nuclear plants are totally clean as long as you just deposit the radioactive waste deep in a mountain. I used to work at a nuclear plant. I hope someone figures out nuclear fusion (as opposed to fission) someday. That would eradicate all remaining nuclear safety concerns.

    energy.png

    2. The current employment numbers in solar power are primarily due to the buildout of solar panels (you can check the reports on this). When those panels are built, it's bye-bye "solar" jobs. They'll still need some polishing/maintenance and someone to look at them and tick some checkboxes and say "Yep, they're solar panels alright! Guess my workday is over." But that's it.

    Luckily Solar is still too way terrible to stand on its own -- so the coal, gas and oil jobs (currently 1,037,755 jobs combined) aren't going anywhere for many more decades. Unless nuclear fusion comes along. In that case bye-bye solar panels too.

    Claiming that solar is a job-creator is a pipe-dream. Panels have some benefits; mainly that they're clean, but that's pretty much it. They waste tons of space, need annoying maintenance, and are (for now) utterly terrible at generating electricity. If it weren't for environmentalists, we wouldn't even have built a single solar panel. Because they still make very little sense electrically.

    Again, I'm not against the idea of solar power, and I definitely hope that someday they advance to the point of being worthwhile. Anything that is good for the environment is worth a chance.

    What I'm against is the media's obsession with misrepresenting facts to try to delegitimize the President.
     
  10. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #10
    That's a valid question. If you wanted to claim they're carving out a fact to fit a preferred narrative, then I wouldn't disagree with you. But they do specify the basis of their claim, and they provide a link to the report, allowing readers to see for themselves the context of the claim.

    But yes, it's a little like saying, "up to 50% off on selected items." It requires a smart consumer to understand that everything in the store isn't being sold at a 50% discount.
     
  11. SteveJobzniak thread starter Suspended

    SteveJobzniak

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    #11
    Hehe, yeah. After I spent some more time wrapping my head around how exactly they've chosen to misrepresent the report, I've re-phrased the portion you quoted, to really illustrate the bizarreness:

    "That's a very disingenuous way of looking at the report. Reading a report on "Electric Power Generation and Fuels" and chopping out "Fuels" to only focus on how many people are working at the final electrical power generation plants (and ignoring employment at the coal mines, oil drills and gas reservoirs that provide fuel for those plants)!? That's bizarre and deceptive! And as if fuel jobs aren't more important than pure electricity. Like them or not, fuels are used for a lot more than just filling up a gas tank. They're vital ingredients in other industries and products. We can't live without them."

    So the newspaper chose to only count the jobs at the final power generation plants, but not any of the jobs of actually digging / extracting the fuel used in those plants.

    So to them, the coal, gas and oil just magically appears out of thin air. There's a joke in there somewhere, about socialists expecting handouts for free. ^_^ But I'll resist.

    Especially since I just had a medical exam today and was told I do not have cancer, despite my repeated exposure to mainstream media. I should count my blessings and save my energy for the rest of the day. :D
     
  12. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    The headline is not true.
     
  13. juanm macrumors 65816

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    #13
    This post is as misinformed as the headline of the article is misguiding (that is, very).
     
  14. SteveJobzniak, Jan 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017

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    #14
    ^ Quoting this again for those that missed it.

    As unlinked points out, the report itself explicitly says:

    1. Making accurate employment comparisons between energy types requires looking at both generation and fuel. That's because fuel doesn't magically come out of thin air, and is part of that sector's jobs process. But the newspaper ignored this and decreed that fuel does come out of thin air and that we should only pay cherry-picked attention to the number of jobs at the final power generation plants. A slimy misinformation campaign, just that they could push their "Trump is evil and doesn't even realize Solar rulz" narrative. In 2015, Solar provided 0.6% of the United States energy needs. Hardly anything to cheer about. I wish Solar was better, since it's pretty clean environmentally. But Solar is terrible. Improved panels in the future could be worthwhile. Maybe. It would require a revolution in panel technology.

    2. Solar jobs are unfortunately mostly short-term, temporary construction jobs when building new panels. I guess the solution then is to cover every square inch of the entire United States in solar panels, coast to coast, so that we have enough solar construction jobs to last for a couple of decades! ;-)
     
  15. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

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    #15
    Yes, I'd say the information is a bit misleading as it does not consider the fuel component.

    That said the fossil fuel industry has tanked over the past decade due to environmental regulation.
     
  16. SteveJobzniak thread starter Suspended

    SteveJobzniak

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    #16
    True, there used to be a lot more jobs in those sectors before the over-regulation. Look at the bar graphs I included above. In 2006, Coal plants produced 2,000,000 MWh of electricity. In 2016 the regulations had dropped that to less than 1,000,000 MWh. With an increase in natural gas and wind that only managed to make up for about 30% of those massive losses in electrical generation.

    I think humanity is way overdue on a new energy source, though. I keep hoping for nuclear fusion. It would solve everything.
     
  17. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #17
    It's true given the context of the subhead and details in the body of the story.
     
  18. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    aka it wasn't true
     
  19. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #19
    You've picked an example to rail against all Main Street media like they are all in the same basket and all do the same thing? This really undercuts the neutrality of your argument, because the Right Wing elements have been doing this for decades, pushing fake news. Are you an undercover Trump operative or Something?
     
  20. SteveJobzniak thread starter Suspended

    SteveJobzniak

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    #20
    Все СМИ так делают.

    Почему вы думаете, что я русский хакер? Нет, я американец. Я люблю Хилари.
     
  21. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

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    #21
    Well part of that has to do with the deindustrialzation of America and the economy tanking in 2008. That said, if Trump brings tons of manufacturing back to America, there will definitely be problems. We're already at a point where our reserve energy is low, which can result in malfunction of electrical devices and blackouts.

    In fact, I was in NYC this summer during a heat wave and the power company was cutting off power in Queens and the Bronx if I remember to prevent blackouts in the rest of the city. I think it's a little concerning, not to mention it seems the power was cut to the less... affluent areas of NY.
     
  22. SteveJobzniak thread starter Suspended

    SteveJobzniak

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    #22
    @A.Goldberg Oh no...! People won't be able to check their Instagram! Phone chargers won't work! There will be piles of dead Millennials on our streets, with their phones clutched in their cold, dead hands and a frozen look of terror on their faces, a bit like this: :eek:
     
  23. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

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    #23
    No, energy prices will increase further. Electrical components controlling our infrastructure will cease to work effectively. And we'll suffer from rolling blackouts. That's a pretty severe issue for a first world country.

    Before my time, but remember the 1977 Blackout of NYC- which resulted in looting and arson. Almost 4000 people were arrested.

    A few years ago a large transformer blew up at the prudential center, causing much of the city to loose power for a few days. These transformer cost millions and aren't exactly stocked on shelves, therefore the replacement had to be shipped halfway across the country. In that time millions of dollars were lost in commerce, businesses could not operate, restuarants food spoiled, etc.

    I'm also reminded of a snow storm that hit Connecticut maybe 5 years ago, much of the state was out power for 1-2 weeks. That was in the winter, many people's hearing systems rely on electricity to function.

    Power loss in a modern country is not good considering how dependent we are on electricity.
     

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