Am I really Anti-American?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by halfprep455, Apr 9, 2007.

  1. halfprep455 macrumors regular


    Feb 17, 2007
    Maryland USA
    As some of you can tell by my posts, I am a pretty liberal guy. I just happen to live in a very conservitive household and come from a conservitive family. Everytime I get into debates with anyone in my house or I question the war or the president I basically automatically get called "anti-American." Do any of you out there think its anti-American to quesion the war or the President? How is it anti-American to say that you support people like Obama or Kusinich for president? Im just sick and tired of being called anti-American and that I "help the terrorists" by people in my family and in my neighborhood.
  2. katie ta achoo macrumors G3

    May 2, 2005
    This idea was brought up in my lecture today. We're reading and discussing "The Dead" by James Joyce and the professor brought this up today.
    This takes place in the 2 years before the first major push for Irish independence (1912).
    The protagonist doesn't connect with any of the other characters, much like something you're experiencing a little with the questioning of the current administration.

    IMO, if anything, you're more of an "American" because you question the ideas set before you. Instead of blindly accepting things at face value, the question of "why" is brought up.
    Exploring topics and making an educated decision is smart and not anti-anything, until you decide you want to be against it.
  3. juanster macrumors 68020


    Mar 2, 2007

    no way man, i know it's ur family and all, but u can just tell them to f'off... just because you don't feel teh same way as the leader of your country does not mean you are against your country. IMO i think that war is useless and all is doing is making meeeeeee pay more for gas prices and taxes for soldiers to go overseas, and it's not even our war, what are canadian soldiers doing overseas? (i actually know what they are doing, i have alot of friends in teh army and they have explained everything to me but it is still useless... call me selfish or whatever you want but i don t think i should be paying to support something i don t agree on.... in conclusion,,, just because you don t feel teh same way as others do, it does not mean you are against them
  4. devilot Moderator emeritus


    May 1, 2005
    No. Questioning, thinking, debating, disagreeing with the government isn't anti-American. I feel like being disrespectful might be anti-American though. You (meaning people in general) can certainly make your points without resorting to name-calling and such.
  5. yg17 macrumors G5


    Aug 1, 2004
    St. Louis, MO
    The people who idly stand by and do nothing except blindly support their country and its leaders as it spirals down into a ****hole, taking the rest of the world with it and not doing a damn thing to change it are the ones who are anti-American.
  6. zioxide macrumors 603


    Dec 11, 2006
    Isn't one of the biggest things about being American is freedom to believe what you want and say what you want? Here you can criticize the government all you want and support who you want. It's one of the great things about this country.
  7. ebouwman macrumors 6502a

    Jan 5, 2007
    i think that many people living in america aren't really very americain, in the sense that being americain is about having freedoms and such, while many americains squash others' rights.

    What's next, are your parents going to call you a communist? or a Terrorist? sounds a lot like the witch hunts of the cold war and McCarthy's trials.
  8. furious macrumors 65816


    Aug 7, 2006
    Don't buy into the dogma. You are right to question. Asking questions is the greatest right we have. Think how little we would no if know one asked questions. ;) Asking questions is a sign of ones intelligence. The more questions you ask the smarter you will become. never stop asking questions because some imbecile tells you are being anti something.
  9. eji macrumors 6502


    Jun 8, 2004
    Inland Empire
    A healthy democracy relies on active criticism and informed debate. Blind, unquestioning support for the government and all its policies is the stuff of totalitarian regimes. The next time your parents complain about the Bush administration's immigration policies or tax laws, meet their gripes with a cold, angry glance, and ask, "Are you questioning MY government? USA: Love it or leave it!"

    As a liberal (which isn't a four letter word), it's important when you're in the overwhelming company of conservatives to distance yourself from the "Hollywood liberal" stereotypes and explain that you're not chanting for the heads of the US soldiers when, for example, you argue that the invasion of Iraq was a violation of international law predicated on lies from the get-go. Acknowledge their sacred points like troops, democracy, patriotism, and show that they matter to you, too, you goddamn heathen traitor commie. But then again, there are still many people who will retreat into an ideology and refuse any facts that run contrary to it, however logical and sound, the more that ideology becomes threatened.

    I once read that conservatives tend to think in direct cause/effect terms, and liberals tend to see the world as more nuanced, with a network of different forces affecting outcomes. So to a conservative, the threatening gaggle of Spanish-speaking kids hanging out on the street are lazy, uncouth immigrants. They should be sent back to their own country and prevented from returning. Problem; problem solved. To a liberal, they may be third-generation citizens who are simply poor and lack the resources of their middle-class peers, which can be provided by enacting laws that don't always benefit the elite. Or they may very well be immigrants who have tried to escape the poverty of their native country, poverty that stems from local corruption and instability as well as industrial laws running in the US' favor. And so on, and so on. Therefore there isn't one single cause or explanation. Problems are systemic and should be analyzed as such.

    When I talk to the conservatives in my family and elsewhere, I try to keep these things in mind. It doesn't spare me from aggravation, but it does help me argue my position just a little better. Lately I've found my own mother agreeing with me, though that might be tied to a general shift in public opinion than my skilled rhetoric.

    And no, you're not anti-American, but I don't think George Carlin for president would represent a significant advancement in the American political situation.
  10. solvs macrumors 603


    Jun 25, 2002
    LaLaLand, CA
    Ask them how they feel about Clinton. ;)

    Someone once said that conservatives treat their government like a parent or spouse, while liberals tend to treat the gov like a sibling or coworker. If a fellow conservative is in power, attacking them is like attacking the country itself. Some people recognize that we should have the right to criticize our leaders. That's part of what makes our country great (or is supposed to). It's built right into our system. But people are afraid, and look to GW and the neocons to protect us. Attacking them somehow means siding with the terrorists, even if the reason most of us are so upset is because of the failed handling of the WOT. And really, what have they done right? Really. I ask that question over and over, and get nothing. It's one thing to defend your guy. It's another to defend someone no matter what, attacking even those with viable concerns, especially when that person or group you defend has done so many things wrong, and yet you still defend them.

    Stand by your country at all times. Stand by your gov when they deserve it. Criticize them when they don't BECAUSE you love your country, and want to make it better. Even if just to defend the right to criticize itself.

    That being said, despite having facts and a majority of the country on your side, you probably shouldn't bother arguing with your family about it. It's only going to piss everybody off. If they don't want to follow that same rule and want to get into an argument, be as informed as you possibly can to argue with them. You may not be able to change their minds, but if you have unbiased facts on your side, you can shut them up when they try to spout talking points.
  11. dornoforpyros macrumors 68040


    Oct 19, 2004
    Calgary, AB
    Yes, a patriot doesn't ask questions.

    Look at this way, if a true american is just suppose to keep their mouth shut and follow their leaders with blind faith, then do you really want to be true american?
  12. dylan macrumors 6502

    Jul 9, 2005
    You are much more American than they are. Bush is very anti-American his administration is effectively pissing on the Bill of Rights and working to destroy everything America stood for. He has on numerous accounts declared himself "above the law", sounds more like a dictator than the president of a constitutional republic to me.

    Have your family members read the Constitution.
  13. princealfie macrumors 68030


    Mar 7, 2006
    Salt Lake City UT
    You're considered anti-American if you are

    1) brutally honest
    2) understand the Constitution
    3) willing to question
    4) read leftover Tom Paine pamphlets
    5) don't worship Paris Hilton
    6) able to identify Paris, TX on a map
    7) a Bible banger without having actually read the Bible.

    I love being confrontational in fact. I don't care if I make people mad at me. I'm from New York so really there's no way around us.
  14. princealfie macrumors 68030


    Mar 7, 2006
    Salt Lake City UT
    But isn't there a right to diss too? I think that the freedom to pretty much do anything is cool w/ me.
  15. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a


    Sep 18, 2006
    But you're considered a good American if you

    1) think that debate involves holding signs and shouting down the other side
    2) read things into the Constitution that aren't written there
    3) question everything, but love every conspiracy theory
    4) read Mother Jones cover to cover
    5) think John Stewart is a news anchor
    6) know where every beach is located in California and Florida
    7) think the Bible is an archaic tome that should be relegated to the dustbin of history.
  16. skinnylegs macrumors 65816


    May 8, 2006
    San Diego
    .....'cause his name sounds too close to Osama. ;)
  17. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Feb 14, 2004
    OBJECTIVE reality

    Which side of your family supports upholding the Constitution? Obeying international law? Helping our military, instead of weakening it? Respecting the will of the people? Telling the truth?

    If they're not in favor of those things, you're not the anti-American in the household.
  18. ebouwman macrumors 6502a

    Jan 5, 2007
    it seems that many americains don't see it this way, and in fact force it's teachings on us and call themselves true americains!
  19. 0007776 Suspended


    Jul 11, 2006
    Those ones would be these.

  20. princealfie macrumors 68030


    Mar 7, 2006
    Salt Lake City UT
    Yeah, of course I try my hardest to be well-read you know. Seriously, I like reading the Bible, Book of Mormon, Koran, B-Gita, Kumasutra, the catacheism, etc. etc.

    It's strange that many who are religious hardly pick up a book in their lives. Sad.
  21. brad.c macrumors 68020


    Aug 23, 2004
    50.813669°, -2.474796°
    How an you possibly be against every American? There's over 925 million of them. Are you Anti-North American? That's 500+ million people. Anti-United States of Americans? That's 300 million people, not even half of which voted for Bush in 2000. And if only 30% of the people support him now, that's 90 million people. Are they all insufferable? Likely not. I haven't met an citizen of the United States that I didn't like. Heck, I'd probably have a blast getting drunk with Dick Cheney. Of course I'd never go hunting with him.

    Remember: Hugo Chávez is an American.
  22. leekohler macrumors G5


    Dec 22, 2004
    Chicago, Illinois
    No- that's called protest. Sometimes it's necessary- unless you're talking about Westboro Baptist Church.
    Hmmm...who does that sound like? GWB anybody? Don't get me started.
    I question everything, but conspiracy theories are BS.
    I have no subscriptions.
    He's a comedian like Rush Limbaugh. :)
    I hate the beach, not to mention warm weather.
    As far as our laws are concerned, it is and should be. But people can believe what they want.

    So which one am I? Pro or Anti?
  23. princealfie macrumors 68030


    Mar 7, 2006
    Salt Lake City UT
    I dunno but I think that you just incurred the wrath of Swarmlord coming to swarm over you now. :eek:
  24. Agathon macrumors 6502a


    Jan 19, 2004
    Believe me, you are not anti-American.

    Leave the US. You will see what real anti-Americanism is like. I don't mean go to Syria or Iran. I mean go somewhere closer, like Canada.
  25. princealfie macrumors 68030


    Mar 7, 2006
    Salt Lake City UT
    Yes, Canadians tend to find us rather distasteful which why they beat us in hockey most of the time. :)

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