America Has Never Been So Ripe for Tyranny

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by 1458279, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #1
    It's a long read, but pretty well done.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

     
  2. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #2
    Laws and Executive Orders already enable tyranny. All that's needed is an excuse to put them into action. Aside from all the EOs about "emergency" situations, consider RICO, Patriot Act and NDAA. As I've griped before, it's all bi-partisan.

    In the EO department, the government can take over all food supplies and all transport fuels.
     
  3. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #3
    When I first read the thread title, I thought the article was about Trump...and I was right. Even though the piece is already a bit antiquated in its view that delegate "rigging" is necessarily bad and Trump is supposedly becoming more presidential, it's right in its view that Trump in the White House could be tyranny come true.

    However, never having read Plato, I have no idea if the author is representing his views faithfully. The author seems to be arguing for an elite ruling class and that the less equality there is, the better -- both highly dubious arguments.
     
  4. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #4
    Back then, humans also thought leeches exorcised demons and how most diseases, like STDs, were sins created by the devil because they couldn't figure out what caused them.

    The point? Reading the bit on "multiculturalism" and "sexual freedom" was based on perspective.

    Heck, trying to say we have less freedom now than 50 years ago makes for quite a larf. It all depends on perspective.

    Then again, while Bush was imposing NSPD51 and chumming with anti-gay people, his VP's daughter Mary Cheney told the world she was gay as if it was as big a bold brave deal for people to announce who they have sex with in 2006 as it was in 1966 (no, it wasn't as brave, since by 2006 many people had and society finally got used to the fact that more than straight people exist and could actually be okay... this leads to a tangent so I'll stop for now.)
     
  5. maxsix Suspended

    maxsix

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    #5
    Hussein has brought the country down, creating a great divide. Taking sides and instigating violence, then sitting back ignoring select events that result from his efforts.

    Of course this is just an observation. Certainly there are some that would argue he's a wonderful... or maybe not.
     
  6. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #6
    Also, taking control of food? How is that bad, everyone says how nutritional food is better? So many private companies dropped the ball to begin with... And who could care less if Hershey left this country to go make other nations fat with their cheap trash? (Yup, caranuba is so much better in your stomach than on a car chassis, oh ow tasty!)
    --- Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016 ---
    Saddam is dead, has been for years, the great divide had already existed and long before 2008, what are you doing to try to heal the divide, and most of all: please stop revising history before someone calls you "liberal" since only liberals are claimed to do that...
     
  7. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #7
    To be fair, just as much as Obama has divided us to the point where Trump is in the running, W brought us to Obama.

    It's hard to say everything bad happened under Obama only. It's not just about intent, it's about results.

    Either way, we are where we are.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016 ---
    They might have used leeches, but the logic used then is still valid today. Someone can look at us 1000 years from now and question what we did and find mistakes made in order to invalidate everything we do.
     
  8. MarkusL macrumors 6502

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    #8
    Is this Trump's new campaign slogan?
     
  9. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #9
    Half the country supports the American Hitler, so yeah, tyranny is right around the corner.

    Apathetic Americans made their bed. Lie in it.
     
  10. impulse462 Suspended

    impulse462

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    #10
    president gets executive authority from the constitution. you're complaining about obama because you don't like what his executive orders entail.

    if your problem is with executive orders as a whole, thats a founding fathers issue.
     
  11. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

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    #11
    Seeing neo-feudalist Trumpettes writing about tyranny always gives me a a good chuckle.
     
  12. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #12
    Thanks for adding such a profound, deep-thought statement to a thread involving discussion of philosophy. It'll take all the student of philosophy many years to full grasp the deep meaning of your words of wisdom. ---- oh, wait, it's just spam, you've added nothing to the conversation, but had some uncontrollable urge to jump in.

    Did you have an opinion on Plato’s Republic?
     
  13. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #13
    Andrew Sullivan is no Trumpette.

    From the article:

    More:

    In other words, if Sullivan is right, Trump is the canker sore of Democracy, a sign of flagging health and not the cure, as our ideological joyriders have otherwise argued.

    Sullivan ultimately argues that the nation needs to reconsider its relationship to elites, to reconsider the opening, enveloping democracy that seems ready to topple the electoral college. I'm not sure I agree with Sullivan, but it's an interesting argument.
     
  14. CaptMurdock macrumors 6502a

    CaptMurdock

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    #14
    Why don't you pick up that dictionary you're using for a beer coaster and look up "redundant"...
     
  15. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #15
    Yet you are incredibly silent on EO 12333.

    BL.
     
  16. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #16
    You didn't actually expect him to READ the article did you? Many are just low-information auto-bashers, all they do is look at who made the post and push their auto-bash macro.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 6, 2016 ---
    Thanks for adding such a profound, deep-thought statement to a thread involving discussion of philosophy. It'll take all the student of philosophy many years to full grasp the deep meaning of your words of wisdom. ---- oh, wait, it's just spam, you've added nothing to the conversation, but had some uncontrollable urge to jump in.

    Did you have an opinion on Plato’s Republic?
     
  17. CaptMurdock macrumors 6502a

    CaptMurdock

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    #17
    Speaking of spam...
     
  18. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #18
    Just in case you didn't get the point, and it's clear you didn't, both you and Bent, added nothing to the conversation, that would be spam, wouldn't it? @hulugu pointed out that he didn't even bother to understand what he was posting about and got it 100% wrong.

    It's like watch sheep stampede over a cliff. Did you bother to read the article? Looks like both you and bent got it 100% wrong as you were to busy with your "auto bash macro" based on who posted the article.

    Looks like deep-thought and critical thinking is pretty rare.

    But thanks for proving my point.
     
  19. ActionableMango macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

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    #19
    I don't think he means nutrition guidelines. I believe he's referring to the emergency powers that allow the government to seize food. For example, there's an earthquake, hurricane, whatever. You have a two week food supply, your neighbor has none. FEMA can seize your supplies and redistribute them to your neighbor (or anyone else as they see fit).

    Or he might be referring to the macro case and not the individual case (i.e. the legal ability, in an emergency, to seize entire farms and everything related to food distribution).
     
  20. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #20
    Well, it helps to know who Andrew Sullivan is, and I read it back in May when the article was published in NY magazine.

    I'm always hesitant to argue that its low-information voters who disagree with me. First, because the argument contains the assumption that I'm the high-information voter—a self-serving argument that just begs to be hoisted on its own petard—and, second because "low-information" voters exist on both sides. As a reporter, I often interview people on their political arguments and most of them are unsupported by actual data.

    Plato is an interesting cat. First, we have to remember that his vision of democracy is based on the ancient Greek model, and the government tried and executed his mentor Socrates. Second, the reason that Socrates was put to trial—and judged by up to 500 men in Athens—was because of "impropriety" and corrupting the youth of the city. In part, the Athenian democracy put Socrates to death because he was a heretic, who created new gods in place of the old ones.

    In other words, it wasn't liberal democracy post-Enlightenment that put Socrates to death, but rather an older form of democracy affixed to a theocracy—here, Galileo and Socrates seem to have more in common.

    But, Plato argued against poetry and fiction—imagine Plato trying to deal with Internet memes—because he thought that such structures distorted the world.

    It's also worth noting that Plato's Republic required the sharing of wives and a collective child rearing by the state.

    I side with Aristotle on this one, Plato's Republic is a myopic dystopia.
     
  21. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #21
    Someone in one of my old college classes (I pretty much minored in philosophy) once compared it to Socrates holding a mirror to the people and they didn't like it. Some call it the "mirror of truth".

    We also discussed how these same problem were present now and how it involves human nature to stick with what we've learned.

    An example today is that the biggest factor in determining someone religion (if they have one) is where they were born. This is the same thing with people grouping together based on views, views that reinforce their own.

    Even now, we have the government stepping into things like the floods and saying warning about racism, or safe zones in schools.

    I always thought it was more about human nature.
     
  22. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #22
    The Allegory of the Cave can be useful because it requires us to consider how our biases tend to distort our viewpoint. And, it should require us to examine our reasoning and facts, to step back and use objective measurements to ascertain the world. In other words, be journalists and scientists.

    Politicians trade in the shadows on the cave and hope that enough voters will forget to turn their heads.
     
  23. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #23
    I remember seeing a version of that in another college class, it was actually a public speaking class of all things.

    These things are all the more profound when you factor in the power of the Internet. We see the results as we become more divided.
     
  24. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #24
    impulse462, I have no problem with the idea of Executive Orders. My point is that from a tyranny standpoint, the EO for control of the availability of food and transportation fuel is a powerful weapon. As written, the EO can disallow the sale of food and fuel except as governing entities wish.

    I don't see all governments as being forever benevolent. Simple as that.
     

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