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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IgnatiusTheKing, Mar 9, 2010.
That's what a new poll says.
As a Brit, let me just say that America couldn't have lost anymore respect after re-electing Bush. I never heard such vitriol at the expense of American voters as around that time.
How you got that thread title from that poll I have no idea.
I was curious to see which nationalities they'd asked in this poll.
Sorry, but the Americans don't decide how much they are respected outside their country. On this their opinion is basically worthless - especially so for the Americans without a passport.
We knew this back January 21st of 2009; not sure why this poll now telling us the blatantly obvious is confirming what we already know...
The thing is - we have certainly lost respect internationally in the transition from President Bush to Obama - but these same foreign nations that now look down at the United States are the first to yell to us for help in a catastrophe... You're right... it would be great to know which nations do not respect us - likely the same nations that still owe us WWII reparations from US aid.
Well, it's interesting to see the dichotomy between how Americans perceive our reputation in the world and the actual reputation; there's a lesson in the differences.
Of course, confirmation bias will cause conservatives to run toward the poll, most of whom won't recognize that the study polls Americans only and doesn't prove a helluva lot.
i suggest that you read your own sources before posting a thread.
That's because foreign policy wise Obama is pretty much following in Bush's footsteps, which is evidence that the president really has little power in such matters, the real people running the show are behind the scenes, and they never change.
Interesting. Who are they, exactly?
I read it just fine. I thought it was an interesting talking point bound to invoke some responses (hence the "?" at the end of the thread title) based on the opinions of the people polled. It doesn't matter who was polled (to me) because I think it's just a starting point to discuss the subject with a more international group than most Americans usually interact with.
Well, there's a great deal of difference between your thread title:
"America Less Respected Globally..."
and the poll's results:
"...Americans think the standing of the U.S. dropped."
First, let's look at Obama versus Bush specifically:
On this national security stuff it is important to separate generic Republicans and Democrats and actual individuals.
On the idiotic point of perceived global respect domestically, this is a rather sad state of affairs and ultimately such perceptions become electoral reality to an extent. I imagine if we look at the internals there is the Republican/Tea Party/inthenet bloc who vote out of hand that the United States has lost all standing without thinking twice about it. Simultaneously you have the so-called progressives who will say the same thing since Obama has not made good on a lot of very difficult policy changes to make, i.e Guantanamo.
This perception, however, is demonstrably false. From 1999-2008 and 2008-present I have been to more countries than I really care to mention and the net-American respect is not less than it was 2 years ago. It is a bit caricature-like to say that Bush was universally hated abroad. In fact there are myriad countries where Bush was popular among the polity and the political elite. Similarly, there are countries where Obama is not popular. This is probably pretty obvious, but the number of people who have this visceral animosity towards Bush I imagine is way way smaller than that towards Obama.
All of this said, there are signs that yet another transatlantic crisis is going to pop during this administration. Cohen in today's NYT says everything I would want to say on the issue: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/09/opinion/09iht-edcohen.html
The thread title was meant to be a question (hence the question mark), which is why I edited that response.
Well, the question is piss poor.
Global respect to someone could mean to interpret "Do we kick ass, not negotiate and torture people?" or it could mean something that actually corresponds to global respect in a universal way.
Agreed. They would have to have polled Americans living outside of this country to make this poll credible, let alone plausible. Since those polled more than likely have not been outside of this country, the poll fails miserably.
There's also this, though (which seems to be the opposite of the 39/31 split quoted above):
No it doesnt
easily one of the more "agenda" filled threads ive seen here in a while.
I took the question pretty much directly from the linked/quoted article.
I phrased it as a question because I wanted to know what people who weren't part of the poll (specifically, our non-American posters) thought of it.
I lost almost all my respect for the USA when they re-elected Bush.
I got quite a lot of it back when they elected Obama.
The USA was not a place I would consider moving to under the Bush administration.
It is now.
According to the Washington Times it does (see above quote).
My critique was a shot at the poll, sorry for implicitly directing it at the messenger.
It would have been more useful if they asked the question to holders of passports and those who don't. Even then, you would probably see an increase in fabrications.
Have you ever been to the US? What makes you think you'd like it more now than before? And was your opinion of the US high during the first Bush admin?
I ask because I don't think my daily life has been impacted that much by the change from Obama to Bush. Many on both sides are worried that it will (or in some cases won't) change over the course of Obama's administration, but for the most part he hasn't actually done much to change our daily lives. Not yet, anyway.
I agree completely. I would love to see the results of a UK or EU poll asking many of the same questions.
Well then the Washington Times is wrong.
Fair point, but unless they'd done two polls that's not very interesting information.
And if you really care about how much the US is respected worldwide getting out of Israel's back pocket would be a very good start.
Well I found the following showing how the US reputation changed under Bush:
Yeah I lived in Germany back in '05 and had to field questions about Bush and Iraq on a daily basis. I bet that graph would have a pretty steep spike upward in late 2008, followed by another slow decline.