American conservatives are still clueless about the 97% expert climate consensus

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ericgtr12, Apr 5, 2018.

  1. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #1
    The ignorance surrounding climate change is not only mind boggling but a testament to how successful the right is at spreading misinformation. It's like ignoring a treatment plan after more than 97% of doctors agreed that you have cancer.

     
  2. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68040

    Mac'nCheese

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    #2
    Sad. But so many people believe lies while disbelieving science...I’m not surprised.
     
  3. raqball macrumors 68000

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    #3
    I am an Independent and I do not believe it, nor do I disbelieve it for that matter. Depending on who or what you chose to believe on the subject there is data and experts who can prove your point..

    I am not sure if the 97% expert consensus claim is correct though. I guess you can feel free to label me as ignorant since I do not buy into the argument full stop.
     
  4. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68040

    Mac'nCheese

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    #4
    Well even if the 97 is not correct, do you agree that, by far, more experts believe in man made global climate change that those who don’t?
     
  5. raqball macrumors 68000

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    #5
    Don't know really. 1st we would have to qualify who we deem as an expert and then compile all the data. Even then some would say Al Gore is an expert and I'd not qualify him as such.. I don't really think there is anyway to quantify a number we could all agree on.

    I honestly don't know what to believe these days. A while back there was a study that said milk would kill you and was bad for you. That 'study' was followed by another that said milk was good for you..
     
  6. ericgtr12 thread starter macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #6
    Scientists who are experts in the field and make objective peer reviewed studies based in fact, not opinion, are those who are qualified.
     
  7. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #7
    The Unenlightenment is strong in some political parties.
     
  8. raqball macrumors 68000

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    #8
    Agreed but that's still not a certainty as these experts do often disagree. So who do we chose to believe? I'm not complete sold that it is an issue nor am I sold that's it's not an issue so these experts have not convinced me either way thus far.
     
  9. ericgtr12 thread starter macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #9
    Right, who do we believe, the 97% who agree or the 3% who have differing opinions? A conundrum that can only be answered by Fox News or Rush Limbaugh.
     
  10. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #10
    What we all should be doing is updating our degree of belief as data comes in and theories are developed to explain the data. Honestly, though, the consensus on climate change is more universal than any other scientific issue I know of. Scientists are notorious for being contrarians and trying to get them to agree on anything is like herding cats in a field of mice, using dogs, while riding horseback blind-folded. That's not to say the consensus cannot be wrong, for instance if it is built on shared false assumptions, but the strength of consensus is unusually strong for science.
     
  11. RedKite macrumors regular

    RedKite

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    #11
    Noticing this more day by day on both sides of the Atlantic.....
     
  12. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #12
    I honestly we are facing a direct attack on the Enlightenment both in the US and UK, and it seems to be coming at all different levels, and from some people who ought to know better.
     
  13. raqball macrumors 68000

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    #13
    I dispute the accuracy of the 97% claim.

    Where did Fox News or Limbaugh come into the conversation? I said nothing about either nor would I consider them to be experts on the matter.
     
  14. ericgtr12 thread starter macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #14
    If one says 2+2 = 4 or that on a clear day the sky is blue it's indisputable, just like climate change and mans role in it, we have empirical evidence. You will always be able to find a few outliers (like flat earthers) that will attempt to debunk it but facts are facts.
     
  15. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #15
    Even Trump's NASA agrees with the 97% figure:

    Here's the list of scientific organizations from that NASA link (endorsing the position that climate warming trends are extremely likely due to human activities):

    American Association for the Advancement of Science
    American Chemical Society
    American Geophysical Union
    American Medical Association
    American Meteorological Society
    American Physical Society
    The Geological Society of America

    I don't think you'll find anything comparable rejecting that idea.

    Of course, when you consider that most Republicans don't even believe in evolution, this sort of backward, non-scientific thinking isn't that surprising.
     
  16. mac_in_tosh macrumors 6502

    mac_in_tosh

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    #16
    Politicians promulgate talking points that their fossil fuel lobbyists give them.
     
  17. TC_GoldRush macrumors 6502

    TC_GoldRush

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    #17
    What if both sides are wrong? The Earth is a massive object that we Humans don't quite understand. For all we know it could just be a natural process... I mean humans are so small and the Earth is so big! The carbon levels don't quite match up with the heating of the atmosphere either. All it takes is one giant comet and the Earth turns into a giant ball of ice. Us Humans have discovered that the Earth has warmed up significantly in the past, and that we're living in the end of "the little ice age"! Then again... what do I know? It the truth could've been covered up by cooperate higher-ups. That's just my input and opinion on the subject matter anyways.
     
  18. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #18
    Again, I think we shouldn't be thinking in terms of right or wrong, but in the degree of justified belief. The evidence is strong enough to have a high degree of belief. We already know what happens due to runaway greenhouse gases: it's called 'Venus'.

    The thing that I worry about that nobody seems to be addressing is how the increased CO2 levels are affecting biology. We are certain that CO2 levels have risen, and while they're still low, they're rising rapidly to levels humans have never experienced. Moreover, those CO2 levels are exposed to everybody (and indeed every air-breathing organism) 24/7 from conception to death. Most of the research on CO2 and the brain (I am a neuroscientist) focuses on conditions in which breathing is impaired or n how the brain regulates breathing. I know only a handful of studies looking at chronic CO2 exposure, which is not enough to be sure what we are doing is safe. So, by increasing CO2 we're conducting a massive uncontrolled biological experiment in addition to a gargantuan uncontrolled climate experiment.
     
  19. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #19
    There is a simple explanation as to why a large percentage of people don't believe the "experts".

    There have been too many over the top predictions such as polar ice being gone by 2014. Add into that the East Anglica University scandal and it is not too hard to develop a distrust of the experts.

    As for why a majority of democrats "believe", I am not so sure they so. I think part of it is them just believing what their party believes and toeing the line.
     
  20. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #20
    The real question is what they agree to “97% of climate scientists agree climate change is occuring” They can agree climate change is happening, but disagree to the cause, extent, and solutions.

    I’m not denying, just pointing out the obvious issue with catchy science headlines. I don’t claim to be an expert on climate issues, way out of area of knowledge. I’ll assume the overwhelming consensus is in line with increased CO2 is causing issues.
     
  21. spacemnspiff, Apr 6, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018

    spacemnspiff macrumors 6502a

    spacemnspiff

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    #21
    How can objectivity be expected of most conservatives - aka religious zealots? It's easy to make fun of middle east for mixing religion and governance, but this has happened throughout American history with most conservatives, in effect trampling 1A.

    Back to the point, for the past 150 years US has been largest emitter (compared to the rest of the world combined) of pollution up until recently. We do surely love our V8s and commuter trucks.
     

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  22. Adam Warlock macrumors regular

    Adam Warlock

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    #22
    Yeah, like all those dolts who don't believe in chromosomes and the vast consensus science has about gender, for example.
     
  23. Stella macrumors G3

    Stella

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    #23
    Easier to do so, rather than face reality.

    Flat Earthers, however, are mystifying in their fantasies / beliefs!
     
  24. Adam Warlock macrumors regular

    Adam Warlock

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    #24
    Your belief in such a dichotomy over a relatively complex issue should give you pause. This isn't a simple case of merely two sides. There are others that, for example, may fully or even partially accept the science but not the interpretation. There are others still who simply are not interested in having global warming alarmists impose 'solutions' on them that are dubious at best and often completely ineffective from what we've seen after decades of this nonsense. In short, the issue isn't as clear-cut as you seem to believe it is.
     
  25. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

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    #25
    This is a good example of how anything/everything can become politicized.
     

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