American Dream breeds shame and blame for job seekers

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jnpy!$4g3cwk, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #1



    I've seen this all the time in recent years, most often with people over 50. Older job seekers are sometimes subject to blatant age discrimination, yet, blame themselves for the fact the prejudiced employers would rather hire someone half their age with no experience. Is this truly distinctly American, as the article states?
     
  2. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #2
    No. It isn't. And to be honest, this didn't just affect jobseekers over 50.

    I experienced it firsthand during the first recession of the 2000s, shortly after the US went into Afghanistan and Iraq. You couldn't buy a job in IT. The minute a suitable position opened up, it was flooded with applicants to where they immediately closed down the offering, but then sat on all of the applications, effectively doing nothing with it or deciding to leave the position vacant.

    And to top that off, if the employer did continue with the hiring, they opted for someone with little to no experience versus this that had the experience (in my case, 5 - 8 years worth), because that gave the employers the opportunity to offer a lower salary to the one with little/no experience.. sometimes, it was a much lower salary.

    that made the jobseekers with experience do one of two things: lower the fair market value of themselves and their skill sets, or leave that market entirely. In my case, it was both, and I was 27 - 29 at that time. That shifted the entire job market to the advantage of the employer, and jades the jobseeker, as it allowed the employer to do whatever they wanted with the applicants, knowing that they would be desperate enough to work for less, and got into the psyche of the jobseeker.

    That definitely is not the American dream.. Oh wait, my bad.. it's all about capitalism. :rolleyes:

    BL.
     
  3. ElectronGuru macrumors 65816

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    #3
    Personal responsibility and negative reinforcement at work, go team!
     
  4. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #4
    Its all about what you do with that free time. I had a gap where I technically couldn't be employed due to wait times with paperwork. I volunteered at a local YMCA rebuilding furniture for kids. Resume gap filled and I felt good about my time off from the corporate world.

    If you have an employment gap that you can't explain its really your own fault. If I had to take a ****** job until I could find a better one that's what I would do.

    If you are unemployed for a year you should be ready to answer why and what you did with that time.
     
  5. jbachandouris macrumors 68040

    jbachandouris

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    #5
    You see, this attitude is EXACTLY the attitude addressed by the article. I haven't had anything long term in almost 4 years. I have been going to ITT Tech since September and even contract firms want more to fill in the gap. Taking a **** job? News flash, if the word computer or PC is anywhere on your resume, you're considered overqualified and they won't hire you. Trust me I've tried.

    I am 46. I am A+, Network+, Security+, and an MCSE on Windows 2000. I was also Dell certified.

    I have tried everything. I tried construction under the electrical apprentice program. I don't move like I'm 18, so that didn't work out so well (6 months). I even went so far as to get a CDL A license to drive truck. Guess what? Just because you can pass the road test for your local DMV does not mean you will pass at the trucking company you apply to.

    Sadly, even my wife seems to have the 'it's your fault' attitude. She babysits out of the house, but only made $13K last year. :(
     
  6. barkmonster macrumors 68020

    barkmonster

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    #6
    Spoken like a true a*****e. If you'd ever struggled for any time significant enough to reduce that presumptuous ego of yours, the fact nobody "takes anything" would be apparent. Every job of every sector or pay scale is the result of HR department interest at the application stage, followed by a job offer after the interview. You sound like one of those obnoxious "tax martyrs" who's always crying about people in a position they deserve to be in themselves for want of any real problems of their own to complain about.
     
  7. jbachandouris macrumors 68040

    jbachandouris

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    #7
    Thank you. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who took it that way.
     
  8. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #8
    I didn't speak anything about finding your dream job working in technology, I just said that you better be ready to explain what you did to improve yourself while you were off of work or what you did to fill the time. If you have a 4 year gap in your resume with no explanation there really isn't an excuse.

    Perhaps you should look at other areas of your state or other states for a job.


    I graduated into the great recession, you seem pretty presumptuous about my situation. When I couldn't find a job I started a small business to pay the bills. From there other opportunities came along and I am in a new country now with plenty of job opportunities if I want them.

    Maybe try moving to a different state?
     
  9. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #9
    You try uprooting your family to do that. You try taking your kids from an environment that they know and trust for the sake of that job. It is a hell of a lot more difficult than you realize. If you have children, you should be reminded of that fact.

    Personally? I had a 2 1/2 year gap with jobs where I was. And you know what? over half of the country did at that same time. there was at least a 60 - 70% attrition rate in IT, where people who were in it found themselves at Home Depot or Walmart, or both, and still didn't have enough money to make ends meet. Every IT job I applied for within 250 miles of my home at that time did the same thing; hurry up with applications, and sit on them. Oh.. I forgot to mention that this was Las Vegas, so 250 miles gets me halfway to Phoenix, partially up to Fresno, and covers San Diego and Los Angeles.

    Oh wait.. I must not have tried hard enough, so it is still my fault, right?

    My point: You aren't in any authority to judge how much someone has done, nor to dictate if they are at fault or not. You never saw what people did, how much they struggled, how how bad they had it. People keep joking about how IT guys moved back into their parents house and lived in their basement. You wouldn't joke about it if it happened to you. Luckily, it didn't for me (my parents lived 1600 miles away), but it sure as hell felt like it, as well as hit me hard and made me think not only was it the right field for me to get into, but if I was really as good enough as I thought I was. And when those doubts creep into your head, it really makes you wonder and contemplate other things.

    so again, you can't, shouldn't and don't have the authority to judge. So please get over yourself and your belief that you think you do.

    BL.
     
  10. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #10
    inb4 "you decided to have kids!1!!111"

    You do realize who you are responding to, don't you?

    If anyone actually thinks that employees are to blame for today's job climate, they're going to need a big-ass towel to wipe all to poop off their head.
     
  11. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #11
    Reading that I think first off it was in a different era.

    Secondly your advice, is just that your advice, what worked for you, won’t alway work for another person. Completely different circumstances, like kids, major family ties will make every person needs different.

    I mean I could give you some advice on how to prepare for retirement.
    First like I did inherit a very large amount of money like I did, be able to sign on with a large company and get a job for life, and get final salary pension. Then take early retirement when you are 57yrs old. I mean it’s easy I did it.

    Every recession is slightly different from the one before, this time the jobs are not flowing back to the western world. To many off shore possibllities, plus there are just so many qualified people chasing to few openings.

    The employment situation is made worse by business looking only at short term.
     
  12. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #12
    All I hear is a bunch of whining from people who were butt hurt in the recession. All I was advocating was to fill the gaps in your resume with something. I gave an example that applied to me as I volunteered at a local youth organisation.

    If you sat around on your ass for 2 years with no explanation on what you were doing you get what you deserve.

    ----------

    Everyone has a choice to fill their time with something reasonable and productive. Not everyone has a choice to have a silver spoon put in their mouth.
     
  13. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #13
    You're right. I did get what I deserve. a high 5 figure job, which I was qualified for, because I didn't settle for less, nor for what everyone else was doing because of them causing the recession. I didn't think 'oh, woe is me', or "butt hurt" as you call it.

    I did work in keeping up my skill sets. But I didn't at any time turn away from my profession to try to do something else just to make ends meet. I kept at it. And look at what it got me: a job that actually paid double than the last one I had prior to the recession in 2002.

    But as I stated, as you never walked a mile in my shoes to know what I went through, you aren't in any position to judge what I have or have not done.

    However, feel free to criticize; as Dale Carnegie said:

    Walk a mile, my friend, walk a mile.

    BL.
     
  14. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #14
    It sucks out there.

    If you're a man with mouths to feed you tend to find a way. It's less than ideal sometimes but you do what you have to. But not everyone gets a happy fairy tale story.

    Sometimes it sucks waking up in the morning, but you drive on, get creative and try new things. What else can you do?
     
  15. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #15
    And it's not as if IT is a sector that's dying...
     
  16. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #16
    And this is exactly why fast-food workers should get more than minimum wage, cause it's not just teens working there anymore. It's experienced people from other fields, filling in the gap, as per your logic. ;)
     
  17. anonymouslurker macrumors regular

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    #17
    So salaries should be based on who the employee is, not on what the job is?
     
  18. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #18
    That's the opposite of what I'm saying.
     
  19. SoAnyway macrumors 6502

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    #19
    It really irks me when I read comments from the more conservative people in the forum who reduce the systemic problem with unemployment to "personal responsibility". Saying so is like picking the low-hanging fruit from the vast tree.

    Why don't these people ever try digging deeper at the issue than saying "well I did this, therefore it applies to everyone" or "maybe you should have chosen a more lucrative career" or simply "stop whining"? Arguments like these are overly simplistic and offer no real solution.
     
  20. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #20
    There is no utopia and never will be. Striving for it is a fools folly, or ends up with astronomical death tolls like under the whole Marxist and Stalinist movement.

    And yes, sometimes hard work is an actual differentiator between well off and broke.
     
  21. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #21
    I'm happy to blame Stalin (or Mao) for the deaths their policies caused, but neither Marx, or Lenin, or Trotsky would have been up for that.
     
  22. ElectronGuru macrumors 65816

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    #22
    There are very few threads where at least one side (usually both) isn't driven by some degree of idealism. Communism and fascism are examples of the dangers of extreme ideology. These are not the same:

    Both ideology and idealism can blind us to reality. Ideologues maintain their beliefs, often in spite of facts to the contrary. Idealists maintain their beliefs, often in the face of insurmountable obstacles- hope springing eternal notwithstanding. Of the two, idealism has the greater value because it causes us to be open to new ideas and new frontiers. Ideology may generate steadfastness, but often at the expense of intractability when a change of course is called for.

    http://america-adrift.com/2013/07/22/ideology-versus-idealism/
     
  23. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #23
    So, are you fine with just leaving things as they are, the status quo as it were? Or do you think at least trying to find a better outcome is a reasonable course of action?

    Of course it is. But that doesn't mean that just because you don't work your fingers to the bone and sacrifice everything in life that you shouldn't at least be able to afford food and a place to live, as long as you are working. Well-off is different from comfortable. Yet, if you ask those who are wealthy apologists, if you aren't out busting your ass every day, you deserve to be poor.
     
  24. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #24
    I agree, I hate when people say that. As a nation we have done a poor job in adapting our population for what pays in the 21st century.

    A more educated and skilled population is the solution, not arbitrarliy inflating the minimum wage to $15 dollars an hour.
     
  25. TechGod macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #25
    Marx made pretty good points about capitalism. Certainly true about it put in place by the wealthy. Unfortunately capitalism works far better then most other systems an example being the late 1900's when Russia were in a bad way financially.
     

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