Americans Estimate Our Wealth Distribution and Fail

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by samiwas, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #1
    I just stumbled across this tonight, and I haven't seen it discussed here, although we've had similar discussions before. I can't vouch for the validity of this data, as I don't know the reliability behind the source. Actually it looks like the data is from 2005, but it still warrants a bit of a discussion.

    I would say I fall pretty far to the left when it comes to my thoughts on social support and having a more equal wealth distribution, but even I think this version of "ideal" is a little unbelievable. I would think something more like 40%, 25%, 15%, 10%, 5% as the percentages.

    But either way, I think the "actual" values are pretty out of control. The bottom 40% aren't even visible in the chart. Wow.

    Americans Estimate Our Wealth Distribution and Fail Horribly

    [​IMG]
     
  2. iBlue macrumors Core

    iBlue

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    #3
    Whoa!

    If only the people in government weren't usually so far into the left part of the graphic themselves (or essentially in the pockets of those who are), then maybe something real could be done about it, at least on a very basic level. (such as health care for everyone and closing tax loopholes for the extremely wealthy.) But oh no, self interest and being held hostage by the "I'll take my money elsewhere" commands all. As if even half of the super rich are going to make good on those threats or see any significant dents in their massive profits even if they did have to pay out fairly. Good old greed. It's a right, after all, to have multiple yachts and homes across the globe. The poor just aren't trying hard enough. Lets give their tiny wallets a damn good kicking to let them know that. Champagne, anyone?
     
  3. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #4

    Attached Files:

  4. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #5
    I was gonna post this separately, but this is a good place too:

    (My bold.)

    Explains the Tea Party, don't it?

    Except the damn fools are mad at the wrong people.

    And as the OP points out, they haven't a smidgen of a clue how bad it really is.
     
  5. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    #6
    What's even more depressing is that the bottom tiers often get taxed the most. The more affluent certainly take care of their own when it comes to tax law and public policy. It's no coincidence that the less we spend on public education the worse these numbers get--which is the desired outcome. The affluent are very good at getting those who are less well off to vote against their own best interests and less education makes that much easier.
     
  6. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    Never underestimate the stupidity of the American people. They'll sit there and buy the crap fed to them by the right over and over, until there's no lower to go. It's sick.
     
  7. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    #8
    I wish there was a Sesame Street for adults that taught critical thinking.
     
  8. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #9
    [​IMG]
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    What percentage of their income is paid in taxes? I mean ALL taxes, not just federal income tax.
     
  10. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #11
    I don't know. Find a graph. I was responding barkomatic's un-sited drama since no one else was. Perhaps barkomatic is right. Perhaps not. But when I read and-life-isn't-fair missives like his/hers, I roll my eyes and look for numbers to actually debate.
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #12
    The numbers you presented are irrelevant without the numbers I mentioned. What you posted is what conservatives like to post all the time with regards to federal income taxes. It is not representative of the tax burden as a whole. It also does not show percentages of income that go to taxes. That's equally important, don't you think? Incomplete information does no one any good.
     
  12. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #13
    You didn't seem likewise bothered by the vagueness of barkomatic's numbers when you commented on his/her post. Actually, barkomatic presented no "numbers." To use your rhetorical question: "That's equally important, don't you think?"

    My apologies. I forgot the Congressional Budget Office is a shill Republican organization.

    Sure, unless you want to blindly support someone's comment, like your support of barkomatic's. "Don't you think?"

    I know, I know. It's much more fun to simply talk about "the stupidity of Americans."

    Don't you think?
     
  13. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #14
    Y'all don't read the daily news very much.

    The majority of the topmost incomes are those of the upper echelons in the financial industry. Bosses at such as Goldman-Sachs. They're totally in bed with the upper echelon folks in both political parties. That's in the Administration as well as the Congress--and the billfolds of both groups swell thereby.

    This shift from a strong middle class in a smokestack/industrial society to an ever more concave economic pyramid has been going on since the beginning of the "Information Age" and the rise of the financial giants.

    And as far as samiwas' wealth distribution? It always has and always will come from the bottom 90% of incomes. The government will always protect the top 1%; it always has.

    Odds are, the only folks in today's politics who might--repeat, "might"--try to do something about it are the Tea Party folks--and that's a slim chance but at least it's a maybe. The existing electees won't. I mean, whatcha gonna do? Pass a law saying, "You can only have $XXX but no more!"?
     
  14. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #15
    Since when...

    Since when does my neighbors high income lower my income? Since when is it a zero-sum game?

    What is so bad about income inequality? I am in the 2nd lowest bracket and am totally fine with that.

    So I'll ask again- Does my neighbor's high income hurt me? Or just make me jealous and whiny?
     
  15. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #16
    Sorry but the people backing the Tea Party movement seem to be fairly wealthy themselves. Progressive taxation is the only fair means of wealth redistribution as long as it's not taken to an extreme, which it will be.
     
  16. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #17
    Because in today's political climate, it concentrates power which is always a bad thing.
     
  17. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #18
    Elaborate please. Platitudes won't cut it.
     
  18. samiwas thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #19
    To further yours and Lee's argument, I think a graph needs to show how much tax they pay on ALL of their income. Not just how much of all taxes the pay on their salary income. I'm curious what income that chart is reporting...it may very well be using all income.

    Or how about, a percentage of taxes based on wealth somehow. I'm sorry, but if you are in the class (top 20%) with 84% of the country's wealth, don't be crying me a river about having to pay 55% of the taxes. The bottom 40%, who aren't even visible on the wealth chart, pay 5% of the taxes according to your chart. So using just simple math here, the top 20% have a 65.5% burden (55% taxes with 84% wealth), while the bottom 40% (assuming 1% wealth) have a 500% burden (5%/1%). Yes, I know that's a very simple way to look at it, but still...
     
  19. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #20
    How about. He who controls the gold makes the golden rule, meaning those who have the most money can dictate whatever they want to those who don't have the most money. And it gets proven every single election, who can buy the seat, it's not who is qualified just who can buy it. Then we get into absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    *Edit* I'm not jealous or whiny about it. I say good on ya if you can make that much money. But it's those who sit on their ass and inherit the money and make the policies who make me a wee bit upset.
     
  20. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #21
    samiwas, according to that last graph, the top five percent are carrying one helluva load. The top five percent are carrying 44% of the load.

    That's pretty damned unfair, seems to me.

    The bottom forty percent are carrying 13% of the burden. Damned near getting a free ride.

    Which is why the whole idea of a progressive tax rate is so beloved of thieves, losers and drones.
     
  21. renewed macrumors 68040

    renewed

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    #22
    It doesn't make you whiney and jealous. But it sure does a lot of other people.

    I mean how is it fair that someone working 50 hours a week, who is not a business owner and whos skill set is relatively expendable is not making millions a year and doesn't have a brand new Mercedes E-Class sitting outside that is paid for and can't fly to anywhere they want when they want. I mean hell they can't even buy the newest line of coach purses and gucci shades. It just isn't fair man! We must take income from the rest of the nation. We must put it in a big pile and we must distribute it evenly! :rolleyes:

    Fracking ridiculous. If you want to become wealthy and in the top 1% then go invent something, find a service that you can do better than anyone else or start investing when you're young. This B.S. about the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer might actually be correct. Why? Because the rich aren't on forums crying about what other people have instead of working to get it.
     
  22. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #23
    Over the last 50 years politics has become a game of money and power. To get elected in today's political climate requires considerable financial backing. These backers will want a return on their investment and they will come from the top tier of income earners. Just as a welfare recipient will never vote to repeal welfare so a wealthy individual will never back someone who will redistribute wealth.
     
  23. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #24
    Please point me to an example of an elected official receiving "a seat" in exchange for currency. Or you can skip me and go straight to the justice department and congress, because that is pretty darn illegal and I am staunchly opposed to that practice.

    But that has nothing to do with "wealth redistribution," which this thread is about.

    Nothing like some good Texas common sense. I seriously do not understand these peoples mindsets! I make probably under $22,000 a year, and I am fine with it. I am not living in poverty, I can afford to shelter feed and clothe myself, and I actually live a pretty comfortable life I think. I do not feel under-represented, I do not feel squashed by the "rich," and I do not feel like I deserve a cent more than I earn.

    The very notion of "Wealth redistribution" is sickening. Sure, healthcare and education are great and admirable causes, but "Wealth Redistribution?" Really? Taking other peoples things and divvying it up between people who did not earn them? Please.
     
  24. felt. macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    How am I supposed to take a chart seriously that uses words like '2th' ?
     

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