An Apple Union?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by barkomatic, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    #1
    This comes as a surprise, but an Apple employee in San Francisco is attempting to start a union for Apple retail workers. He claims he does not yet have enough interest to bring it in, but says he is making headway.

    I have mixed feelings about unions. On one hand, the decline of the unions has contributed to a lower standard of living for the vast majority of Americans (and contributed to a luxurious standard of living for the top 1%). This is a bad thing, and there is nothing that stands in the way of this disturbing trend.

    However, I can't argue with the fact that its often difficult to fire or discipline union members when they repeatedly produce substandard work--and that hurts everyone. I think if unions are to survive, they should continue to seek increases in wages and benefits for their members--but not protect them so much when they blatantly screw around. Organizations need to fire people who don't meet the standards of the workplace.

    Anyway, here is the article:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/13/us-apple-idUSTRE75B1FL20110613
     
  2. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #2
    If they are paid within industry levels, and have good benefits (e.g. profit sharing), the union stands zero chance of getting in there.

    IMO.
     
  3. 184550 Guest

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    #3
    A horrible idea.

    Look at what Unions did to Detroit.

    I'll gladly for the 'it' factor surcharge Steve has but I'm not paying extra upon extra for someones retirement or healthcare.
     
  4. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #4
    A great idea.

    Look what unions have done for Stuttgart.

    Federal taxes?
     
  5. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #5
    labor cost was only 10% the total cost of making a car but got most of the blame.

    The US manufactures screwed themselves over. They did not offer a good small cheap car at all and they paid for crappy reliblity from the early 90's.

    Unions were a small factor in Detroit's downfall.

    I believe they are blot below industry levels.
     
  6. Apple OC macrumors 68040

    Apple OC

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    #6
    IMO they will never be able to create a union for Apple retail workers
     
  7. 184550 Guest

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    #7
    Here, check out 'Background' and 'Industry and Labor Statistics'.

    I think that it'll be rather hard to argue that the consumer doesn't pick up some of the cost for all the UAW, and similar, retirees.
     
  8. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #8
    Are we just taking Cupertino, or are you including China??
     
  9. Rodimus Prime, Jun 14, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2011

    Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #9
    I said it was 10% of the cost of manufacturing the vechical which tells me even with the Union there that most of the cost is elsewhere.

    Do not try to argue that the union were the reason the big 3 fell. The problem were elsewhere and a lot of other factors.
     
  10. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #10
    I guess that makes it hard to argue against a Consumer Protection Agency that keeps that kind of **** from happening.

    I'm tired of all the "the cost will just be passed onto the consumer" arguments as it only means two things:

    1. They are content with letting corporations do, whatever, simply because they know corporations will do anything to keep the bottom line more profitable then the year before.

    2. They truly think corporations are entitled to behave the way they do, and that for some reason government intervention on the consumers behalf has no place to tell these corporations what to do.

    Why does this country have the mindset that corporations simply have a right to exist and essentially do as they please, lest they turn on us.

    It's like letting a sleeping bear into the living room:

    Them: "don't poke the bear! it might wake up and maul us!"

    Me: "Why the **** did you invite it in here in the first place??"
     
  11. 184550 Guest

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    #11
    Don't worry, I have not stated once that Unions were the cause that the Big 3 imploded.

    You seem to want to make it about that though for some reason. :confused:

    I would venture the guess that you wish to show off some sort of special knowledge you supposedly have on this issue. If it makes you feel better, by all means go for it.
     
  12. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #12
    What exactly did the unions "do" to Detroit there? Some elaboration would be nice.

    For the record, only the first line of my previous post was directed at you, the rest was merely spring boarded from you post. Please don't think A;; of that was me putting words in your mouth, merely my perspective on some CT folk I've talked to recently.:)
     
  13. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #13
    really? Look what I bold from another post.

    tell me how is that not saying union caused the down fall of Detroit and the big 3?
     
  14. 184550, Jun 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2011

    184550 Guest

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    #14
    Did you read the two sections I referenced above? :) (Serious question based in part from the 'Old Navy' thread/ 'It Gets Better' link.)

    IMO, they are fairly self explanatory.

    If you want me to add 'contributed' or 'in part' I'll be glad to given I didn't make that clear.

    Though, IMO, one should be able to assume as much in the preceding example given I specifically singled out retirement/ healthcare costs when I originally replied to this thread.
     
  15. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

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    #15
    I hope they can unionize, some of the stories I've heard from Apple store employees are simply dreadful.
     
  16. MacVixen macrumors 6502

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    #16
    It would be very difficult to bring a union into a retail environment. Generally the wages aren't high enough (especially for part-time workers) to justify the costs.

    I used to work for Federated Department Stores (Macy's, etc), and any hint of a union forming at a store caused "Sound the alarm! Raise the troops!" freakouts at a very high level. And it never ever amounted to anything because in the end, the unions were not able to make credible promises to the employees to get them to buy into it. The only unionized stores was the flagship SF store and they had been that way forever.

    This is not to say that all unions are bad. I just think the retail work tends to be too "temporary" in nature for unions to really make inroads now.
     
  17. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #17
    Wal*Crap has the answer to Union forming.

    They close the store. (Cite: Quebec)

    Warren Buffett is our saviour, we shall not want.
     
  18. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #18
    I consider the cost of unions to be a tax that corporations impose on us indirectly by forcing people to organize against corporate abuse of wage-earners and by extension consumers and government. Additionally, government regulation of the free market is only necessary because corporations are greedy and self-interested. If the free market was the ultimate moral good that some claim it is, such checks would not be necessary.
     
  19. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #19
    The consumer picks up some cost for a lot of things. Sometimes that thing is you. Whatever you do for a living, your cost gets passed onto the customer.

    The only thing that should matter in my mind, is the end product and your willingness to buy it.

    How the workers and management choose to produce this product is really their decision. If the workers vote to unionize, then great, and if they don't, that's fine too.
     
  20. 184550 Guest

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    #20
    My point was why pay an additional, IMO, unnecessary 'tax'/ 'surcharge'/ etc?

    As another user already pointed out. Apple Stores are retail stores. If he wants better pay and benefits, he should get a real job.

    What the hell is a 30 year old doing working in retail anyway at this point in his life? If he loves Steve that much, he should eat the lesser pay and benefits as a cost of his fanboyism.
     
  21. MacVixen macrumors 6502

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    #21
    I'm fairly certain you are being sarcastic with that last comment, but some folks DO make a career out of retail you know. Hell, that's what I was doing at Macy's as an HR Manager. Retail work IS "real" work.

    A union, however, won't be organizing career employees for the most part, as if you stick around long enough in retail you should eventually be promoted to management. Thus my comments about the temporary nature of retail. For a large segmentof the rank-and-file, it's part time work and those folks won't be interested in paying union dues on a 12 -20 hour per week job.
     
  22. dime21 macrumors 6502

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    #22
    I say let them go ahead and create an Apple union. Union workers make lower wages and have fewer benefits than their non-union counterparts. Serves them right. There's nothing more effective at destroying a community, its citizens, and its businesses, than Unions. Let them run Apple into the ground, along with all its workers, just as the unions have done to the automakers, school districts, etc.
     
  23. 184550 Guest

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    #23
    No sarcasm.

    I would agree though that while it's impossible for us to speculate on his ultimate goals (if he's trying to get into upper management, fine, nothing wrong with that like you pointed out), the facts are this; 1- He's 30 years old. 2- He's been there for four years. 3- He's trying to unionize hourly workers. The signs aren't looking good.

    I agree. This is exactly why this guy is just spinning his wheels. It's pointless and it's drawing attention. And it's not the kind that gets one promoted.
     
  24. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #24
    Everything is additional. I'm not sure why you think it matters whether the additional belongs to a union or not. Do you care as much as CEOs making millions of dollars?

    You seem to be blaming the working man, withholding from him the opportunity to wealth.
     
  25. 184550 Guest

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    #25
    No, I'm blaming 'him' for trying to **** up a formula that already works relatively well.

    Other commenters have already pointed out the limited benefits and numerous downsides to Unionizing.
     

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