An election is coming up and we are pretty much unprotected

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by bopajuice, May 8, 2018.

  1. bopajuice, May 8, 2018
    Last edited: May 9, 2018

    bopajuice Suspended

    bopajuice

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    #1
    All you "fake news" no "Russian collusion" crowd seem to have forgotten that an election is coming up, and from what I have read we are woefully under prepared as far as security is concerned. Has anyone pulled their head out long enough to realize we have spent so much time defending Trump that our election system is unprotected?

    Correct me if I am wrong. Please...
     
  2. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #2
    They are hoping Russia will continue to favor their side instead of just trying to create chaos.
     
  3. flyinmac macrumors 68040

    flyinmac

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    #3
    One can argue that hacking of systems shouldn’t have taken place.

    But... if Hillary hadn’t done the things she did while she was in office, then those things wouldn’t have sunk her.

    It’s not like Trump came through the elections looking perfect either. But he was unfortunately the only candidate running (Democrat or Republican) by the end, that hadn’t already been proven to have abused their prior terms in office to commit Federal crimes.

    Granted, he hadn’t been a government official before. But, if Hillary had done right while she was in her government positions, then there wouldn’t have been federal crimes revealed.

    Saying ok yeah I committed these crimes, but the other country illegally hacked our system, so it doesn’t count???

    And don’t forget, our government is hacking the computers and spying and using any means necessary behind the scenes to manipulate every other country in the world. Unless you thought we didn’t have spies working for us in Russia. Or that we aren’t also hacking into Russia’s computers looking for secrets we can use to either prepare for their tactics or manipulate the outcomes.

    We will never actually make it universally punishable (worldwide) to hack into another country’s computers. Because if we get all holy on that one, somebody’s going to hold us to it, and we don’t want to shut down our own spy network.

    And yes, we’ve had an active spy operation going on since before we were the United States. Or do you think we just “hoped” we knew what Britain was going to do next?
     
  4. Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

    Snoopy4

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    #4
    If Hillary had actually campaigned in “fly-over” country as the snobbish liberals call it, she’d be President today and the left wouldn’t be saying jack **** about Russia. She lost Michigan and Wisconsin for Christ sake. Moving on.

    Well, her team came up with the dossier, so maybe we would be taking about her collusion.
     
  5. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #5
    OFC we're unprotected we're still trying to figure out whose to blame..
     
  6. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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  7. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #7
    Yeah so in other words GOP to America: yeah we got hacked, we're not sorry and... it will happen again.

    yeah we got hacked we're not sorry and it will happen again.jpg
     
  8. bopajuice thread starter Suspended

    bopajuice

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    #8
    I feel it doesn't matter who won, which party is in power, or how many spies we have vs them.

    The fact that we have foreign powers trying to influence, and/or destabilize our democracy should put any administration on high alert.
     
  9. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #9
    Which totally misses the point. The Russians interfered with the election results by stealing private campaign information and making it public to embarrass one candidate and by running other disinformation campaigns. It was a propaganda attack.
     
  10. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #10
    We are protected. Don't you know that nobody has been tougher on Russia than Trump?

    On a serious note, we deserve **** elections when we have a portion of the country who give Trump free reign to lie, cheat, lie, do stupid things, and lie. He's not at all interested in Russia election meddling because he ego won't allow him for a second to entertain the thought that it wasn't his charm, charisma and being the smartest man walking this green and blue earth that helped him win the election.

    It's all about ego, its all about him, and he won't do anything because he has a soft spot in his heart for Russia.
    --- Post Merged, May 9, 2018 ---
    We have known this for a year and a half, thanks for the update. It's not about altering the actual vote count, haven't you figured this out yet? We don't know the full extent of how this changed our election, and that's precisely what they want, so they can continue doing it. And they will, because Cheetoh-Tanned Dotard refuses to do anything about it.
     
  11. bopajuice thread starter Suspended

    bopajuice

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    #11
    Again, which party won or who has power should be the least of our concerns. Unfortunately until some tangible damage is done, it is going to be difficult to get people to understand and ask them to take off the partisan blinders for the sake of the country. Even if it is for a moment.

    My complaint is about the current administration because they are in power and have the responsibility to protect our democracy. Unfortunately they seem to be more worried about how they look and public perception rather than looking for ways to protect their citizens. If it were Hillary in power and she as doing the same I would be lodging the same complaints.
     
  12. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #12
    There is no evidence of it (not the same thing as proving it did not happen, it just makes it very unlikely), so hopefully the interference was based solely on influencing opinions of voters. Still, elections are coming up and if Putin wanted to sow discord he'd start trying to rig elections in a way that would frame both the Democrat and the Republican parties. Thus, I think the priority now has to be making sure the net elections are not vulnerable to rigging.
     
  13. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

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    #13
    Maybe it was less about changing the election and more about the cluster-f that has gone on since. Focusing on the DNC hack, and assuming it was in fact a hack by an external actor, what further steps should the government take to prevent such a thing? How about a taxpayer-sponsored copy of Norton Antivirus? The Democratic National Committee is a private corporation. Is it not their responsibility to protect their systems, or should the government now be tasked with doing that? If a criminal act takes place then certainly the appropriate law enforcement agency should investigate it (if they are allowed to) and prosecute the bad actors if at all possible.

    You said that we don't know the full extent of how this changed our election. I'd take it a step further and say we don't know that it changed anything at all. There are a certain percentage of people on either side who are going to vote D or R no matter what. Then there are those in the middle who could be swayed. Wouldn't we need to know how many of those people would have voted for Hillary if not for the email revelations?
     
  14. LizKat macrumors 601

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    #14
    Do you not get that the USA needs to attempt to deter meddling by any foreign national in our elections?

    Sure let's just stand around and look at the holes in the barn walls and say well so what, none of them are big enough for a horse to get out of. Maybe not. Maybe that doesn't matter. Maybe all it takes is a hole big enough for a couple kids to get in and play with matches.
     
  15. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #15
    Well, we do know that if relatively few people had changed their mind and voted for Hillary in the swing sates, she'd won the election. And therein lies the problem. Trump has been running scared of the issue because he does not have a strong mandate, and his GOP colleagues have been following suit out of political self-interest. Instead of investigating threats to the election that we know were used by the Russians, Trump pursued voter fraud, which we know is at very low levels.
     
  16. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #16
    Propoganda attacks aren't anything new, you are basically claiming the populace is too dumb for their own good on that branch though, so basically the normal liberal platform.

    The problem is that the US has no right to speak about such things. They topple governments and run propoganda campaigns constantly.
     
  17. edk99 macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    I'll be sure to wear a condom when I go vote in November.
     
  18. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

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    #18
    I can't help but notice your tone has become a little snippy lately. Anyway, do you seriously think the USA has not done anything? CIA, NSA, three letter agencies we've never even heard of....you think they are all just sitting around? I'd be just as worried about the other million ******s of the world who we've shown that some fake Facebook posts can turn the US upside down.
     
  19. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #19
    There is no reason for voting in the USA to be computer (let alone Windows) based.


    On a side note. When the democrats don’t win as big as they claim they will, will that be the final straw in officially declaring Russia as the cause of their problems or will they finally look in a ****ing mirror?
     
  20. Gutwrench Contributor

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  21. LizKat macrumors 601

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    #21
    I think CIA and all those other three letter agencies are nervously trying to help prepare a National Intelligence Estimate of what happens next if Bolton and Bibi talk Trump into doing something really stupid in Iran, that's what I think. NIE is conveniently another three letter word.

    Of course my tone is snippy. Too many Americans on the right try to signal that the meddling was nothing because "nothing happened" (!) without explicitly adding that "it", although "nothing", was fine by them because the visible parts of it appeared to favor their candidate. Please notice I'm leaving aside whether that was knowingly entertained or solicited.

    As far as whom "we've shown that some fake Facebook posts can turn the US upside down", well excuse me but that was precisely the aim of the Russians' meddling, don't you think? To sow new seeds of mutual suspicion of each other.

    Gee, it worked, and who cares what the rest of the world thinks, Russia doesn't care about that. What the US thinks of itself now is what Russia wanted. What the US thinks is that "the other guy" -- not Russia, but the Democrat or the Republican, whichever one we're not, has cheated and plans to do it again.

    American against American, not on issues, but on mutual distrust.

    How can we build a bridge across the gulfs of our misunderstandings if we both figure we each want it to fail so we can say "See I knew you would do this."

    If your concern is that the other [expletives] of the world now think the US is weak because we're squabbling with each other instead of working to make our country happier and healthier, that's part of Russia's aim too, but see they don't care if Guyana or Indonesia or some dude in Brazil thinks we are weak. The Russians know that it's internal dissension, not over issues but over distrust of each other's motives a day at a time, is what weakens a country.

    Who are we now? Americans? Or are we Republicans, Democrats, cynics?

    Who's the trail guide? Donald Trump? Like he didn't just weaken us himself by exiting the international agreement with Iran. Good thing he's bothered to make so many friends and allies of countries in South America and Africa by starting trade wars since we're about kicking our European partners in the teeth along with trading partner China and good ol' Russia... /S

    It does seem a bit confusing, doesn't it, Mr. Trump's approach to foreign policy. Maybe a lot of us Americans are on the edge of becoming just what the far right in this country wants: citizens who are turned-off and immune to both dangers and opportunities in our shared path forward. That way we don't even notice this administration getting ready to pile the loot onto cargo planes when it's their time to depart the halls of power, having paved the runways to their satisfaction.

    My criticism is of citizens who seem to think the meddling is fine as long as the right guy won the election.. in which case those citizens claim "it didn't matter or have any effect anyway blah blah." Before the election Mr. Trump was making noises about how if he didn't win it was because the election was rigged. Now we know there were attempts to rig it, with unknown impact, but his supporters dismiss the concerns because... because hey, everything worked out great.

    If Hillary Clinton had won this election the GOP would still be contesting results in every state.

    Sure I'm snippy. Plan to keep right on being snippy.
     
  22. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #22
    There are mid-term elections coming up, but I'm not sure there is an obvious Russian play to be made. And, even if they wanted to, it's a somewhat more complicated job.

    It probably wasn't too hard to find Russians with the language and cultural skills to create fake Hillary Clinton stories. It's a bit more complicated coming up with stuff that's going to swing the outcome in Ohio's 17th Congressional District.

    Even if the Russians did decide to try something like that, which party do they support? Which party fo they plant malicious stories about? A Republican Congressional candidate is a bit of an unknown for them. He/She could very well be staunchly anti-Russia, and its unlikely the Russians have much kompromat on a guy who's only travel outside the US was a Spring Break weekend in Cancun.

    I don't want to say the Russian hacking of the 2016 elections was a one-off event. But the candidates and conditions created an almost perfect storm, ripe for their meddling and interference.
     
  23. Strider64 macrumors 6502a

    Strider64

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    #23
    Well Hillary won the popular vote so Trump is an illegitimate President, so how can everything Trump has done up to this point have done be his fault? You can't have your cake and eat it. It going on two years now and we're still talking about the Russia meddling in the elections. If the DNC had secured servers in the first place this whole fiasco wouldn't never had happen in the first place. It was shown that Bernie Sanders was swindled out of the nomination by the Hillary backers. There had to be some backdoor deals between Hillary's campaign group and Bernie's group to keep that quiet during the rest of the election. Bernie was acting like a dog waiting for the stick to be thrown so that he can go chase it. If that had happened to me I would had been angry as heck and I would think that I wouldn't had taken any backdoor deals. Though they say power corrupts even people with really good intentions. :oops::(
     
  24. LizKat macrumors 601

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    #24
    It's up to those countries to look out for their own interests. We all know many countries attempt these activities as well, although the styles vary. Russia's more secretive and focused about it, China is often right out there being chummy in general but being ready to seize an advantage that presents itself.

    The US approach has sometimes been that of bulls in pottery barns, go in there and take a shot at making governmental "adjustments" that suit us, figuring when stuff gets broken, enough money spread around to the right places can fix it. That's most often taxpayer bucks though and the fix doesn't usually stay in for long, but the designated fixers don't care about that. They don't think of that dough as coming out of their paychecks too.

    Often enough the blowback comes later. There's generally blowback when you mess with another country. It can take a long time to show up if you're operating in a country whose incumbent government is in cahoots with you, using your foreign assistance to wreak havoc against its internal political opposition. One hand washes the other until something breaks loose and then there's hell to pay. Sometimes the corruption is pretty intense in the meantime. Who'd a thunk we'd still be best bosom buddies with KSA when 19 of the 9/11 hijackers hailed from there? Well but on the other hand we sell weapons to KSA so they can supposedly keep radicals of that kind from attacking palaces in Riyadh. Oops, so a few got away... **** happens... and we want the oil.

    Our challenge from our homeland viewpoint is to answer the question as Americans --not partisans-- whether we want other countries to be able to mess in our elections. If not, then we need to know the government is taking steps to make our defense against such meddling far more robust. Look at the effort it took to get Twitter and Facebook even to bother looking into whether foreign nationals were running bots (and ads!) in our 2016 campaign season.

    Look at Trump still with the "well when I talk to Putin, he always says he didn't do it, and I believe he's sincere" or "... and I believe he believes it". Those are artful dodges. And he still occasionally suggests the meddling could have been at hand of some other country or a "400 pound gorilla" in some bedroom somewhere.

    Maybe the USA is indeed taking steps to defend more robustly against interference. It's not like we should expect detailed explanations of how that's being approached. On the other hand it seems unnecessary to me for Donald Trump to "pretend" that the problem is of no account quite so blatantly. What's the point of that kind of play acting. After all, Russia expects some reaction past the tit-for-tat booting of some intel agents and diplomatic staff we've both engaged in already, and they'd be nuts not to think hardening our cyberstuctures wouldn't be part of that reaction.

    I just don't get Trump acting publicly like he does. No other head of state I can think of would take a public downplaying stance like "well it might not have been them" if foreign nationals were known to have been meddling with their internal politics. That's certainly not the stance the EU and its member states have been taking in response to Russian efforts to hack assorted European elections.
     
  25. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

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    #25
    I thought the Russian meddling was actually collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign to steal the election from HRC?

    I don't think it's okay for another country to meddle in our elections. I also think the US should be careful throwing around boulders in our big glass house. Maybe we feel we have the high ground because we meddle using smart bombs instead of the Internet.

    I've grown suspicious of the collusion narrative that has gotten attached to the meddling so I look at all of it differently now. I don't believe for a second that this was the first time anyone tried to "meddle" with our election and I sure as heck don't believe Russia is the only one doing it.
     

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