An MLK day thread. A collection of questions about race in America.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by likemyorbs, Jan 17, 2011.

?

What is your race?

  1. White

    34 vote(s)
    79.1%
  2. Black

    3 vote(s)
    7.0%
  3. Asian

    1 vote(s)
    2.3%
  4. American Indian

    1 vote(s)
    2.3%
  5. Pacific Islander

    1 vote(s)
    2.3%
  6. Other

    3 vote(s)
    7.0%
  1. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #1
    Every MLK day, we reflect on the history of race in our country. Today i watched the Oprah MLK day special, in one part of it a descendant of a slave and descendant of a slave owner who enslaved her family were united, the slave owners descendant apologized for the horrible things his family did. So this brings up many questions.

    1) Should descendants of slaves receive government compensation for what their ancestors went through?

    2) Should affirmative action, and things the the Congressional Black Caucus still exist?

    3) Are groups like the new Black Panthers, really just glorified hate groups? And are people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson really just bigots?

    4) How much longer until we REALLY live in a post racial America. And how will we get there? By continuing to open up and talk about it, or just let it go?

    Feel free to add any questions you have and discuss. Should be an interesting thread. I'm also curious to get an approximate racial makeup of this forum, so i might add a poll to get that if you guys think it's a good idea.
     
  2. 184550, Jan 17, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011

    184550 Guest

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    May 8, 2008
    #2
    There are so many things wrong this Oprah secnoario that I don't where to begin. *Shakes Head*

    No.

    Hell no.

    Well, they certainly aren't the best spokespersons for the movement.

    I think Obama is good example that we're already there or are extremely close to being there.

    Is the NAACP still a relevant organization?

    In my opinion it's a completely useless organization that is still stuck in 1940s- 1960s America. The branch in Charlotte, NC is at least.

    EDIT:

    I agree, a poll would be interesting.
     
  3. NickZac macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    Dec 11, 2010
    #3
    Compensation? Absolutely not.

    Affirmative Action? %$&# no; it promotes racism

    Sharpton and James probably don't mean to but they do increase the racial divides in a few ways.

    We need to create a truly fair playing field, and Affirmative Action ensures this never happens. If we all went by social security numbers only when doing certain things (ex: applying to a job or institution) and did not disclose name/gender/race/sexuality/etc, then theoretically you would be able to hire people for WHO they are and not WHAT they are.
     
  4. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #4
    It's interesting to note that it took until July 29, 2008 for the federal government (congress) to pass a resolution apologizing for slavery and the Jim Crow laws that followed.

    Reparations may have made sense after emancipation.

    But if it takes over 140 years for someone to just say, "We're sorry," I wouldn't count on seeing money anytime soon.
     
  5. Pink∆Floyd macrumors 68020

    Pink∆Floyd

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    #5
    1) Should descendants of slaves receive government compensation for what their ancestors went through?
    Absolutely, positively, NOT.
    2) Should affirmative action, and things the the Congressional Black Caucus still exist?
    There is no reason for them to exist anymore.
    3) Are groups like the new Black Panthers, really just glorified hate groups? And are people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson really just bigots?
    Yes, they are hate groups, and yes, they are big time bigots.
    4) How much longer until we REALLY live in a post racial America. And how will we get there? By continuing to open up and talk about it, or just let it go?
    There will ALWAYS be racial tension in America, we can talk about it all we want, but we wont get anywhere.

    Now, if you don't mind:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. NickZac macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    #6
    It took half a century to apologize for Tuskegee. Now with that said, I do think Tuskegee victims and their families should be financially compensated, but I am not talking about throwing out billions of dollars, but more along the lines of covering funeral costs, family financial obligations, basic items, etc.
     
  7. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #7
    I'll add a poll once I get home from the supermarket.
     
  8. citizenzen, Jan 17, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #8
    I think I can see a source of it.

    Bitter... party of one... your table's ready.
     
  9. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #9
    CRAP i forgot to add hispanic to the poll, how do i edit it??
     
  10. appleguy123 macrumors 603

    appleguy123

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    #10
    Nice diversity in the poll :)
    Racism is, to some extant, deep in our biology. I doubt that it will ever go away completely.
     
  11. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #11
    1) Should descendants of slaves receive government compensation for what their ancestors went through?

    No, but I think there needs to be compensation for all the wrongs committed after the end of the Civil War up until the 1960s.


    2) Should affirmative action, and things the the Congressional Black Caucus still exist?

    Affirmative action needs to be based on socioeconomic status, not the color of one's skin. That way it would target those who really need a boost, not just reinforce negative stereotypes. How do you ban the CBC?


    3) Are groups like the new Black Panthers, really just glorified hate groups? And are people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson really just bigots?

    What's your point?

    4) How much longer until we REALLY live in a post racial America. And how will we get there? By continuing to open up and talk about it, or just let it go?

    It's going to take another 50 years before there's any true sense of equality. I do believe that some of it needs to come from the black community. Blacks today have the highest rate of HIV infection in the US and much of that comes from men who are on the down low. They're on the down low because black churches have been unable to come to terms with black homosexuality, therefore they turn a blind eye to the greatest post Civil Rights black tragedy.

    However, the rest of America needs to pitch in too. It would be nice if more of us could be like Sandra Bullock in "The Blind Side" but barring that, we all need to stop seeing young black men as potential killers. How? Well, I don't really know but I do know that in the space between 2 Nov, 2008 and 20 Jan, 2009. The world really did seem like a better place.

    And, in all honesty, seeing Michelle's mother, Marian Robinson, in the White House is phenomenally moving and gives me more hope than anything else in regards to race relations in the US. Her quiet presence carries more weight than anything else today. America needs more women and mothers like her.
     
  12. renewed macrumors 68040

    renewed

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    #12
    No, no, no.

    Heck no. It's crap.

    Yes. Black Panthers are a heavily armed racist group of underground militia.

    I would argue this will never happen.
     
  13. Dmac77 macrumors 68020

    Dmac77

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    Michigan
    #13
    1) Hell No. Unless you were the one who endured slavery you don't deserve a dime of compensation. I'm sorry but the fact that your great-great-great-grandfather was a slave has almost no impact or bearing on you. You didn't go through any pain or suffering, you weren't subjugated, so why the hell should you get any compensation? Because you're black? I don't think so. Sorry if I'm ranting but the idea of this is just so asinine to me, and really gets me going. Why should my family's tax money go to compensation for slavery, when my family was still in France, Scotland, and Hungary during slavery and up until the 1950's for both sides of my family? As for compensation for post-slavery injustices, no to that too. I shouldn't be punished financially (through my tax money being used for reparations) when I wasn't even alive during segregation. I personally don't even think the government should have apologized for slavery when they did several years ago; it's not like any of slavery's victims were alive to hear that apology. Just PC crap on the part of politicians on both end of the political spectrum.

    2)Hell No once again. Affirmative action is reverse discrimination. It's not right that someone gets put at a disadvantage just because they're white. I'm sorry but if your black and stupid (not implying any correlation between the two) you shouldn't be getting into college instead of the smart white kid (once again not implying any correlation); the opposite is also true. As for the CBC, it shows that some African Americans isolate themselves and then turn around and say that white America isolates them.

    3)Yes, the Black Panthers are the black version of the KKK IMO. And yes Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are both blatant racists who are no better than the likes George Wallace. In addition to being racists, they intentionally inflame race relations so that they can turn around and call people like me who call their reverse racism out "racists."

    4) Never. And to be honest we should stop trying to make America "post racial" because it makes things worse.

    -Don
     
  14. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #14
    "Awful lot of honkies in here."
     

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  15. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #15
    It's not every day that I get to use the same report in two different threads.

    From the U.S. Military Leadership Diversity Commission's report – the same one that said it's time to officially assign combat duties to women – please note the second paragraph...


    From Representation to Inclusion: Diversity Leadership for the 21st-Century Military

    The Commission found that top military leaders are neither representative of the population they serve nor the forces they lead. The extent to which women and racial and ethnic minorities are underrepresented varies across Services, but the Commission found, on average, low female and minority representation among senior military leaders.

    During the Vietnam War, the lack of diversity in military leadership led to problems that threatened the integrity and performance of the nation’s military (Becton et al., 2003). This is because servicemembers’ vision of what is possible for their career is shaped by whether they see individuals with similar backgrounds excelling and being recognized in their Service. The performance of the nation’s military is tied to the individual’s belief that he or she will be recognized regardless of his or her background.


    The commission and the United States military isn't promoting affirmative action because they are driven by pie-in-the-sky, PC, goodness. This report spells out in no uncertain terms that affirmative action is key to creating the strongest, best fighting force.

    The same principles they cite for making a stronger army also work for making a stronger society...

    This is because servicemembers’ people's vision of what is possible for their career is shaped by whether they see individuals with similar backgrounds excelling and being recognized in their Service workplace. The performance of the nation’s military citizens is tied to the individual’s belief that he or she will be recognized regardless of his or her background.


    Affirmative action. It's good for our military, and for our nation.
     
  16. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #16
    So hire to fill a status quo instead of hiring the most qualified individual regardless of race? Sounds like good times!
     
  17. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #17
    You should be working for Rasmussen, you could write really effective push-poll questions.
     
  18. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #18
    That sounds very sensible.
     
  19. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #19
    I'm close to not saying anything in this thread.. so very close.

    I won't (more like can't) comment on most of the questions, because they really don't apply But not for nothing..

    1. I really can't comment. My ancestors did get compensation, so I would be a hypocrite if I said that they shouldn't, nor would it be fair for my family to get it while other's can't.

    2. Affirmative Action never applied to me. I have more brains than to rely on the government to give me equality in various places. I'd rather rely on my own merits first, and when those are exhausted, I ask for assistance.

    CBC? one part of me wants to say "no comment"; the other part of me wants to say "eye for an eye." If conservatives can have the Tea Party, Blacks can have the CBC. I'm torn, but leaning more towards 'no comment'.

    3. New Black Panthers? Without seeing or reading what they've done, I can't say. I'd rather reservce judgment until they've done something newsworthy.

    Sharpton and Jackson? no, not bigots. definitely empassioned about wanting equality, yes, but not bigots. If you recall, Jackson carried Georgia and IIRC, Alabama in the 1988 primaries, where Gary Hart finished a distant 3rd. For Georgia in particular, he carried the White vote.

    4. We will never live in a post-racial America until everyone gets over their fear and intolerance of other races. We were getting close to it until events under Bush 43 pretty much put Muslims and Arabs on America's "Hate List " (lack of a better term). When you see people from Muslim countries who work in Las Vegas (in which their nametags have their name and country or state they are from) change their origin from their country to "Las Vegas" to escape any percusatory looks or refusal of service, you have a racial problem.

    Like I said before, no-one can ever truly understand racism, until they have been a victim of it.

    You assume that the NAACP is only for one race; it isn't. Yes, it mainly exists for Blacks, but there are Asians, Hispanics, and others who the NAACP supports. It's COLOURED people, not just Blacks.

    I can understand where you get it from, seeing that you are in the South, but that isn't a reason for it to be assumed they are only there for Blacks.

    What would be a better poll here is that for those that post to mention what race they are; otherwise the poll above could easily be skewed; people can vote without posting anything.

    For the record, I am and voted American Indian.

    BL.
     
  20. OutThere, Jan 18, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011

    OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #20
    But you're missing the point, affirmative action aims to correct the fact that, in your words, it's not fair that someone gets put at a disadvantage because they're black. Being born black in America essentially means you likely face a highly disadvantaged life right from the start. On average black children are poorer, come from worse neighborhoods, go to underfunded schools and are less likely to have a father and mother and stable family life. Despite what any pushers of the 'american dream' might have you believe, it's far easier to succeed when you start out as, say, an upper middle class white male. One has untold advantages just by being born where there are good schools, with two parents who have enough money to be around at night to make sure you do your homework, where you don't face as many pressures to buy or sell drugs, chances to go to jail or drop out of school.

    Affirmative action seeks to correct for the inequality of opportunity experienced at the outset by offering better opportunity later on.

    I'd be in favor of affirmative action being based on a variety of socioeconomic factors rather than race. Would you be okay with that, even though it would mean giving an advantage to some poor whites but still lots of blacks?
     
  21. Dmac77 macrumors 68020

    Dmac77

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    #21
    It's not my fault that my family made something of themselves while someone else's family didn't. People shouldn't be given a reward for failure. There are plenty of successful African Americans, they were able to make something of themselves and pull themselves out of poverty and less then prime conditions, If they can do it, so can any other African American who actually is willing to put in hard work. The problem is that so much of black America has gotten used to being on the dole and being rewarded for being in poverty, and for being lazy (not meant to be a generalization of African Americans), and therefore continue to expect to be given handouts and special treatment.

    And no I would not be in favor of any type of affirmative action. At one point my ancestors were part of the working poor, and yet my grandparents both entered college as soon as they came to America, my parents both worked their asses off in high school and then worked to put themselves through college. They made something of themselves without preferential treatment; no one should be given special treatment because who they are or where they come from (just like I shouldn't be able to get into college due to alumni relations or through large donations). By giving people who are poor preference, you are rewarding failure.

    -Don
     
  22. Kauai macrumors 6502a

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    Oct 13, 2010
    #22
    Hell no. My family is not even indirectly connected to slavery, we came here in the 1870's. And furthermore my family was from North Eastern Italy before that and were subjugated by the Austrians and in many cases many Italians in the area were made Serfs before the war for Italian Unification. Should I demand reparations from Austria?

    Like someone else said above, it should be socioeconomically based. And as a Gay person I can say that just like I believe LGBT specific groups need to start disbanding so to do racially motivated groups. Yes, it is true that basically every day use to be White, Male, Christian, Heterosexual day but I think that as our nations leadership diversifies this will lessen.

    Yes and yes.

    Well, it will happen when we elect a President who isn't a White Male and everyone doesn't immediately point that fact out.

    Also, with Hispanics not in the poll, I have to wonder if there really thus far is no Hispanics here or if they voted White.
     
  23. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #23
    Seriously, how the hell do i edit the poll? I need to add Hispanic.
     
  24. chilipie macrumors 6502a

    chilipie

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    #24
    For someone who used to regularly post about the intolerance of others against you, you don't seem to have learnt very much from it. That kind of crass generalisation (and yes, that's exactly what it was) is no better than saying any of the stuff that the Christian right does about gay men.
     
  25. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #25
    Unfortunately there is some truth to it. And people like al sharpton encourage it. If you don't live in the US it can be difficult to understand.
     

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