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silverdollar

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 25, 2014
17
104
europe
[Note: This translation was created with the assistance of AI. English is not the author's native language.


An Open Letter to the Mac Community: The Decline of macOS​


Dear Apple Enthusiasts,

As a longtime Mac user who purchased my first Mac II in 1987 and whose professional career as a designer has been closely intertwined with the Mac, it is with a heavy heart and deep disappointment that I must confess today: I have lost all faith in Apple's ability to produce functional software for the Mac. What was once a beacon of user-friendliness and innovation is increasingly degenerating into a dysfunctional patchwork of promises and disappointments.

For years, I have watched with growing dismay as the quality of macOS continues to decline with each update. Once-valued programs like Music, Photos, Mail, and Apple TV have become torturous to use. They ignore basic principles of usability and logic, as if Apple has forgotten all understanding of consistent design.

The recent update to System Settings is a prime example of Apple's incompetence. Instead of real improvements, we get redesigned chaos that lacks any comprehensible structure. Where are the color codings that could at least visually guide us through this labyrinth? Instead, we are flooded with pointless features and useless bugs, while essential functions are neglected.

Apple's marketing promises us the moon, but the reality is sobering. Many of the grandly announced features prove useless in practice, while once reliable features fail more and more frequently. It's as if the entire macOS ecosystem is falling apart before our eyes.

Can Apple's much-touted AI still save this sinking ship? I strongly doubt it. My confidence that Apple is still capable of delivering even remotely everyday usable software for its admittedly excellent hardware has been shaken.

What good is a $5000 hardware setup if I have to restart the computer multiple times a day and buy expensive alternatives for half of the pre-installed programs just to get basic functionality?

Apple has clearly lost its compass. There is a lack of a plausible overall concept for macOS. Instead, we are fobbed off with an incoherent hodgepodge of poorly made and even more poorly maintained applications.

It's time for us as a community to raise our voices and hold Apple accountable. We deserve better. We deserve an operating system that lives up to the performance of the hardware, that is consistent, reliable, and innovative.

Apple, listen to us: Your focus may lie elsewhere, but don't forget the loyal Mac users who made you great. Remember your roots, the principles that once distinguished macOS. Only then can you regain the lost trust.

With deep concern and hope for improvement, Arne Thaysen
 

skottichan

macrumors 65816
Oct 23, 2007
1,133
1,381
Columbus, OH
What good is a $5000 hardware setup if I have to restart the computer multiple times a day and buy expensive alternatives for half of the pre-installed programs just to get basic functionality?

I am genuinely curious what's causing you to reboot multiple times a day. I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious what's causing this condition for you. My uptimes are however long it is between updates, so months at a time. And I'm running on a M2Pro Mini, so if you have a $5K machine, you definitely shouldn't be seeing this many problems.
 

turbineseaplane

Suspended
Mar 19, 2008
16,545
37,344
Agree with you OP

I've long since settled into "acceptance" here

I basically just now evaluate macOS vs "alternatives" and keep using it as it's still better overall, but it's not something I love as I once did

Tim has pivoted Apple into a services company now, and one that is controlled primarily by financial decisions (as opposed to "making the best products for people") now. It's why we have such homogenization in all the product lines and why so few interesting and creative things are being attempted anymore.

Everything Apple does now has to be a MEGA HIT and make sure "number keeps going up" or it isn't even contemplated. That conservative approach counts on the foundation that was already built, but it naturally limits the upside potential of what could be next.

It's a somewhat mixed feelings place to be. The products are still good, if not very good at times, but they are constantly stretched too thin now and also never really doing anything super interesting or outside the box.

And on the software/Mac side, the polish is just really thin on most everything
 

silverdollar

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 25, 2014
17
104
europe
might be an issue with your individual set-up
You are Definitely Right. I have got a complicated setup to overcome accessibility problems and a lack of customization by Apple. But I am upset!
That is no excuse for the problems mentioned. And trust me, I've got lots of experience, and I know what I'm doing here. This threat wasn't meant as a discussion of an individual setup and it's related problems. I am having a much bigger problem: with each iteration of a macos the reliability and functionality is declining.
 

Wando64

macrumors 68020
Jul 11, 2013
2,302
3,052
I respectfully disagree with your statement that "with each iteration of macOS the reliability and functionality is declining." In fact, I believe macOS—or rather, the operating system for Macs, whatever its name over the years—has never been better.

Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but no software ever is. Every new release goes through an adjustment phase as bugs are addressed, but I don’t believe we’re seeing more issues than in the past.
The complexity of modern operating systems and applications has grown significantly, and so have the challenges in managing them.
It’s also true that some installations have more issues than others. I’ve experienced this myself when a particular macOS version caused my Mac to crash frequently, while others praised it for its stability. But that doesn’t mean Apple has lost its way. Sometimes, it’s just luck of the draw.
It’s also important to remember that users aren’t obligated to upgrade macOS unless they choose to. We do so because, in most cases, each iteration improves upon the last. It adds new functionality, enhances hardware optimization, increases compatibility, and strengthens security against modern threats.
In short, while there may be rare exceptions, the overall trend has been one of continuous improvement.

This is my experience.
 

skottichan

macrumors 65816
Oct 23, 2007
1,133
1,381
Columbus, OH
I was hoping for more clarity so I could understand your point. Because I don't want to be one of those, "my experience is solid, so your complaints are invalid", but you don't want to clarify anything and just kind of insist everyone has the same experience.

I've been around for a while as well, my first computer was my dad's Apple Iic as a little one. I left in the late 90s after college, then returned with Jaguar. I have really never had much of a problem with nearly any iteration, aside from 3rd party software compatibility. Honestly, now that I'm in my 40's, I really appreciate the ease of use with Sequoia and haven't had a single problem with the more recent iterations.

So, I'm sorry you're having issues, but I will have to disagree with your premise.
 

Lounge vibes 05

macrumors 68040
May 30, 2016
3,807
11,013
The first two versions of Mac OS X were literally so unfinished that the majority of people using them recommended to not use it as your main OS, but instead use the older OS 9.
10.4 Tiger launched in April 2005 to a lot of praise, and a lot of usability complaints.
10.6 Snow Leopard was literally advertised as a bug fix and stability release, yet launched with a bug that was literally deleting people’s home folders if they logged out of their account. Tons of data loss.
Mountain Lion launched in 2012, and literally wouldn’t run on some machines that weren’t even four years old. Literally some computers from the late 90s and early 2000s received more updates than machines released in 2008. Luckily Mavericks, Yosemite and El Capitan kept the requirements the same for four years in a row after that, but still. Yikes.

Point is, operating systems have bugs and problems, and this is always going to be true and always has been true.
Even on this very forum it’s not that difficult to find posts of people running any version of macOS over the past 25 years who experienced a show stopping bug.
 

jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
11,191
29,500
SoCal
I am having a much bigger problem: with each iteration of a macos the reliability and functionality is declining.
I have to disagree, the only time I reboot my Mac is when there is an OS update, and I’m currently running the official Sequoia release. 100% stable for me.
As for functionality, sure they added some that I don’t care about, but eg iPhone mirroring I find quite useful.
 

nick9191

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2008
3,387
241
Britain
I’m not impressed with some of the UI design changes that have occurred in recent years, thinking back to that awful battery icon in the betas of Big Sur that probably would have shipped if the community hadn’t shouted about it. But in terms of functionality and stability, I can’t really fault them. I have not had any stability issues since the transition to Apple Silicon.

The other thing is that the hardware is an order of magnitude better in my opinion, both in terms of stability, performance, and overall package. Everyone seems to look with rose tinted glasses back to the Steve Jobs days, and whilst I do miss Snow Leopard (in contrast to Leopard which was a very buggy release and made Snow Leopard look like an obvious improvement), in those days the hardware was frankly awful in comparison to now.

Those plastic white MacBook’s were utter rubbish, they had display panels so poor that half of them should have gone in the bin. The palm rests chipped and yellowed. The MacBook Pro’s were no better, the 2006 MBP received about 4 or 5 revisions in the space of as many months because it was an absolute piece of junk. And about half of the MBP’s in the subsequent years suffer from total graphics card failure. Contrast this with the release of the Apple Silicon Macs, almost flawless so far.

However I do think that Apple should do a “Snow Leopard” release. Even miss a year or two if it means they can release something that is well polished. The yearly release cadence to keep up with the Jones’s is getting tiresome.
 

antiprotest

macrumors 601
Apr 19, 2010
4,306
15,768
I agree, but you are preaching to the choir here. I have no expectation that Apple will change their priorities or how they do things in the near future. Maybe when pressured by fiercer competition? Maybe when blind loyalists finally become disillusioned? Maybe a change in leadership? Maybe never?
 

srbNYC

macrumors 68000
Jul 7, 2020
1,853
1,706
New York, NY
Not to turn this into a debate, but as someone who's been forced to use a Windows machine every day for eight years at the office, I breathe a sigh of relief every time I get to come home to (or work from home on) my MacBook. I haven't experienced the challenges you face, but I still get some of that "It just works" experience that Windows simply doesn't offer. And the updates to MacOS are mostly helpful with, for me at least, no decrease in stability.
 

Timpetus

macrumors 6502
Jun 13, 2014
368
779
Orange County, CA
I have been using Macs since I knew what a computer was, starting with an SE/30. I've had my share of weird bugs, as computers of all kinds seem to adjust the difficulty of their problems to the tech-savviness of the user. Some of your points match my experience, especially when it comes to the Music app.

A lot of the cool things I used to be able to do have been blocked by one innovation or another. Apple Silicon has made it really tough to run my old x86 games, and a lot of things broke when Catalina removed 32 bit support. Are Macs more secure than ever? Probably. I just miss the swiss army knife nature of my old Intel MBPs. Apple does indeed seem focused more on chasing the latest trends than creating them, but they've still got enough advantages that I'm sticking with Macs for most of my computing needs for now. I don't think we're getting the old Apple back unless they can bring Steve Jobs back from the dead, but his legacy has enough staying power that it's kept Apple ahead of the competition even if they are just trying to copy the way he would have done things without understanding the why.
 

cateye

macrumors 6502a
Oct 18, 2011
716
2,785
This threat wasn't meant as a discussion of an individual setup and it's related problems. I am having a much bigger problem: with each iteration of a macos the reliability and functionality is declining.

For you. For you.

You are attempting to deflect taking responsibility for your setup and the choices you make onto the rest of us. Each person in this thread could probably point to some feature or function of MacOS they find difficult or unacceptable—I certainly have my list. But, I also use a suite of Macs to run my business, and all perform to their given task admirably and with a level of reliability I require. Narrow focus, purposeful use-cases, avoid known-problematic combinations. This has been true since the days of the first 8-bit computers and will not change now or at any point in the future. It is your responsibility, not Apple's, to formulate the functional baseline you need to the standards you require.

And if you can't achieve that with a Mac, you seek out an alternative platform that does. These are practical tools, not lifestyle choices. Apple will pursue the priorities it feels are important for the reasons it believes are defensible. Believing you can influence Apple's pathway is not rooted in reality. They make their decisions, we make ours.
 

AlixSPQR

macrumors 65816
Nov 16, 2020
1,060
5,441
Sweden
Linux is better, but I prefer macOS still. It's part of an ecosystem I thrive in. Never cared for Windows. That said, nowadays macOS is burdened with new and buggy features every year nobody asked for. But most can be turned off. Those who like it can use it. This development is profit driven, noone can convince me that Apple isn't all about the money these days. Apple Events are no better than ordinary sales pitches. But that's just part of the economy that gave us what we love to begin with.
 

ikir

macrumors 68020
Sep 26, 2007
2,168
2,342
I manage Mac at work, I sell computer and Mac too, I use Mac daily and macOS is very stable, features full and fast. If you have issues search problems in your setup (hardware and software).
I use Windows and Linux daily too and you have no idea how many issue you get on other platforms. Sell you Mac and try yourself, maybe you will come back in few years.
 

Siliconguy

macrumors 6502
Jan 1, 2022
368
544
Moneterey, Sonoma, and so far Sequoia have all been stable on my M1 MacBook Air, but that is for light use. The real work is done on a Linux box.

The software could be better. This morning I wanted to paste some text into an email on the iPad and where did the paste icon go? It's now hiding behind some indistinct squiggle. Who thought that was a good idea?

IPad Safari is really unhappy with YouTube. Who's to blame? Can't tell. Videos come up on the wrong size, and text entry boxes may vanish without warning or reason.

And on MacOS, why can't I delete useless apps like Messages? I've never gotten a Message, and since I don't own an iPhone I never will. I can (and did) delete Messages from the iPad. Why not from the Mac?

And why is there no Cookie autodelete function on Safari? Is something blocking that? Cookies are all or nothing.

The Mac ecosystem is definitely hit and miss. Too many misses is why I dumped Windows. The Mac is not immune to being dumped either even on this laptop, or perhaps a different one. Battery life and easy of setting up file sharing are the only edges Apple has left.
 

zach-coleman

macrumors 65816
Apr 10, 2022
1,229
2,185
Seattle, Washington
I genuinely find it hard to take anyone who says we're worse off right now than in the late 2010s seriously. They had all but abandoned pro users, the laptops doubled as space heaters, and were shipping keyboards that were so badly engineered there was a class action lawsuit about it. A family member had to get their MacBook Pro serviced 4 times for that keyboard issue. Everything sold was frequently using sub par intel chips for massive mark ups. Maybe the software stability was worth it (I wasn't using a Mac until I returned for Apple Silicon) but I'm not convinced.

I have not had a hard crash in like, 2 years, and that was on a beta version I chose to install. I only ever reboot any Mac I use for updates. Crashing daily isn't normal. I recommend trying to troubleshoot it with other users on this forum.
 

navaira

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,923
5,152
Amsterdam, Netherlands
I have to disagree, the only time I reboot my Mac is when there is an OS update, and I’m currently running the official Sequoia release. 100% stable for me.
As for functionality, sure they added some that I don’t care about, but eg iPhone mirroring I find quite useful.
I curse myself for installing Sequoia. Macbook Air M1. Sometimes restarts by itself (hasn’t happened since Big Sur was introduced), sometimes I have to restart it twice a day because Finder becomes non-responsive, Apple Music has never been a bigger mess and I thought I’ve seen it all, I could go on. I installed it for iPhone Mirroring only to find out I can’t have it in the EU… after, of course, I let it back up to Time Machine. FML. .0 macOS release: NEVER AGAIN. Sonoma never quite stopped having some minor bugs (like inability to upload a newly created file before I switched to another folder and back) but Sequoia beats that, I have to close the upload modal window and open it again.

I’m wondering whether I can reinstall Ventura and get back all the data, but not the system, from a Carbon Copy Cloner drive… sadly, that’s unlikely to work with applications. Bring on .1, Apple, PLEASE.

To end on a positive note – at least it’s not Sonos.
 

jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
11,191
29,500
SoCal
I curse myself for installing Sequoia. Macbook Air M1. Sometimes restarts by itself (hasn’t happened since Big Sur was introduced), sometimes I have to restart it twice a day because Finder becomes non-responsive, Apple Music has never been a bigger mess and I thought I’ve seen it all, I could go on. I installed it for iPhone Mirroring only to find out I can’t have it in the EU… after, of course, I let it back up to Time Machine. FML. .0 macOS release: NEVER AGAIN. Sonoma never quite stopped having some minor bugs (like inability to upload a newly created file before I switched to another folder and back) but Sequoia beats that, I have to close the upload modal window and open it again.

I’m wondering whether I can reinstall Ventura and get back all the data, but not the system, from a Carbon Copy Cloner drive… sadly, that’s unlikely to work with applications. Bring on .1, Apple, PLEASE.

To end on a positive note – at least it’s not Sonos.
I’ve had a M1 MBA and had been running the various public betas for the past 2 OSs and also the initial Sequoia one, other than some glitch (fixed in the next beta released) it was running stable, never crashed. I did replace it with an iPad Air 2 months ago or so…

I don’t know whether a factory reset on yours would also install the original OS, never have not needed to go through that.
 
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monstermash

macrumors 6502a
Apr 21, 2020
974
1,054
[Note: This translation was created with the assistance of AI. English is not the author's native language.


An Open Letter to the Mac Community: The Decline of macOS​


Dear Apple Enthusiasts,

As a longtime Mac user who purchased my first Mac II in 1987 and whose professional career as a designer has been closely intertwined with the Mac, it is with a heavy heart and deep disappointment that I must confess today: I have lost all faith in Apple's ability to produce functional software for the Mac. What was once a beacon of user-friendliness and innovation is increasingly degenerating into a dysfunctional patchwork of promises and disappointments.

For years, I have watched with growing dismay as the quality of macOS continues to decline with each update. Once-valued programs like Music, Photos, Mail, and Apple TV have become torturous to use. They ignore basic principles of usability and logic, as if Apple has forgotten all understanding of consistent design.

The recent update to System Settings is a prime example of Apple's incompetence. Instead of real improvements, we get redesigned chaos that lacks any comprehensible structure. Where are the color codings that could at least visually guide us through this labyrinth? Instead, we are flooded with pointless features and useless bugs, while essential functions are neglected.

Apple's marketing promises us the moon, but the reality is sobering. Many of the grandly announced features prove useless in practice, while once reliable features fail more and more frequently. It's as if the entire macOS ecosystem is falling apart before our eyes.

Can Apple's much-touted AI still save this sinking ship? I strongly doubt it. My confidence that Apple is still capable of delivering even remotely everyday usable software for its admittedly excellent hardware has been shaken.

What good is a $5000 hardware setup if I have to restart the computer multiple times a day and buy expensive alternatives for half of the pre-installed programs just to get basic functionality?

Apple has clearly lost its compass. There is a lack of a plausible overall concept for macOS. Instead, we are fobbed off with an incoherent hodgepodge of poorly made and even more poorly maintained applications.

It's time for us as a community to raise our voices and hold Apple accountable. We deserve better. We deserve an operating system that lives up to the performance of the hardware, that is consistent, reliable, and innovative.

Apple, listen to us: Your focus may lie elsewhere, but don't forget the loyal Mac users who made you great. Remember your roots, the principles that once distinguished macOS. Only then can you regain the lost trust.

With deep concern and hope for improvement, Arne Thaysen

I use a Mac for work, 8+ hours/day. I don't have any of these issues that you mention.
 
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