and now it's Al Franken

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Plutonius, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. Plutonius macrumors 603

    Plutonius

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    #1
    It was just reported that Al Franken was outed as a sexual abuser of women before joining congress. I have been skeptical of many of these claims but this one has photos collaborating the claims.

    Without getting into a "this one was worse then this one" argument, do people on the left condemn his actions and does it change your opinion of him ?
     
  2. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #2
    He should resign immediately. If allegations are credible (this one with pictures), any member of government accused of sexual harassment or assault should be shown the door immediately. Comedic value or the fact that he came from an industry that was 100% OK with this shouldn't excuse it.
     
  3. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #3
    This is clearly sexual contact without consent.
    Touching a sleeping woman's breasts is unacceptable behavior by any standard.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #4
    Yes, and yes. Forum members on both sides of the aisle have already said that unwarranted sexual attention is a behavior that's not constrained to left or right, so why should we a) be surprised or b) defend unwanted sexual attention?

    Some argument has been offered that on the left, politicians are quick to not defend, and to step aside if they are the offender. I am not convinced that's always the case, but it tends to be featured prominently in the press when a Republican is the offender. In my opinion that's because the Republicans are supposedly the party of "family values" and the pols in the Christian right end of the party will often claim they stand on higher moral ground, e.g., making references to "Hollywood values" as being low.
     
  5. zin macrumors 6502

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    #5
    I wonder if the Democrats are going to expel him from the Senate.
     
  6. cwosigns macrumors 65816

    cwosigns

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    #6
    Of course we do. What kind of question is this? We’ve condemned Kevin Spacey; we’ve condemned everyone against whom serious allegations of abuse have been levied. The conservative Christians, who fought equal rights for LGBT and transgender people on the basis that it would open the floodgates for things like pedophelia and sexual immorality, are the only ones tripping all over themselves to defend pedophiles and sexual predators.
     
  7. R.Perez macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    #7
    I have already outlined my position that this is problem with men from all ends of the political spectrum. He should resign.
     
  8. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #8
    Of course not.
    It would result in a lost seat in the Senate.

    Part of why Reps are not too eager to do the same with their own sexual abusers.
     
  9. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #9
    I was talking to someone about the accusations against Louis C.K., Spacey, and Moore and wondering if the men apologized sincerely—not by arguing that they were ashamed that they have problems or that they're gay, or that it's part of a liberal conspiracy—would they be able to save themselves?
     
  10. oldhifi macrumors 6502a

    oldhifi

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    #10

    You mean this guy?? 18erpzpga8wjujpg.jpg
     
  11. R.Perez macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    #11

    It depends what they did. Groping someone without consent is pretty straight forward and you should not be able to simply apologize for it and move on. There have to be consequences.
     
  12. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #12
    He should resign if they are true, and and the pictures aren’t doctored. And if he can’t prove they are false his constituents should not vote him back into office the next time he is up for election.
     
  13. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #13
    With their own supporters, yes. The other side would use it as a club though. Sexual assault or sexual harassment shouldn't be a partisan issue, it's a moral one. Right or wrong is the only standard, not left or right, liberal or conservative. In terms of politics the issue has been whether or not the same standard gets applied across the political spectrum.
     
  14. BaldiMac macrumors 604

    BaldiMac

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    #14
    I sure hope not. Just as I would hope that Moore would not be expelled if he is elected. That's a very, very dangerous precedent to set. To this point, the only people expelled from Congress are people that have committed treason or sedition while in office.

    That said, he should seriously consider resignation and never run for office again.
     
  15. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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  16. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #16
    Well here you go, IF Moore wins the election, the left is going to have to accept expelling Franken in order for the right to swallow expelling Moore. Otherwise they just lost the right to bitch anymore about Moore. I'm dying to hear the lefts defense of Franken if they can muster one up.
     
  17. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #17
    But doggone it, people like him.
     
  18. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #18
    Well, I don't just mean in politics, but across the spectrum of actors, business leaders, etc.

    Can a person accused of sexual harassment, or sexual assault, save themselves by sincerely apologizing?

    Arguably, Al Franken is done. Or, he's not. If Moore can win an election, and come to the Senate, and Donald Trump, can reside in the White House, then there's certainly no political reason for Franken to leave.

    On the other hand, morally speaking, I'd really like for every House member, Senator, or Cabinet leader, to just resign if they have a history of sexual impropriety. If that means nearly empty chambers, and a quiet White House, maybe that's just what we need.
     
  19. hamiltonrwatch macrumors regular

    hamiltonrwatch

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    #19
    Yet another sanctimonious POS becomes a victim of the Karmic train:D
     
  20. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #20
    Arguably, a bunch of other Congress critters are in trouble.

    Local representatives, and governors might also want to take a real hard look at their past.

    Because the days of sweeping this stuff under the rug, either through blind luck, shame, fear, or a pile of NDAs, doesn't seem to work anymore.
     
  21. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #21
    Sounds good to me. People in Public Office should be held to a higher standard than others. Expel them both if they can’t prove that they are innocent.
     
  22. profmatt macrumors 65816

    profmatt

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  23. cwosigns macrumors 65816

    cwosigns

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    #23
    Defending the indefensible is a conservative thing, not something the left engages in to the degree conservatives do.
     
  24. zin macrumors 6502

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    #24
    So now all it takes is for somebody to make an accusation and the accused must prove they are innocent? The accusers have to prove their claims. Here, it seems cut and dried; there is a photograph of it.
     
  25. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #25
    If they did it, then apologizing immediately would only help.

    I agree with what you said regarding the house, senate, etc. The problem is it's never going to happen. Many single issue voters don't care what their candidate does so long as they vote to keep XYZ (ie..abortion, etc), claiming the other side is so evil that I'll accept who so and so is (what ushered Trump in), turnabout is fair play. The voting base is sliding into a moral race to the bottom. We're becoming morally bankrupt due in large part to our divisive politics.
     

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