And Now, Representing the Republicans...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by skunk, Oct 28, 2008.

  1. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #1
    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...-republicans-dirty-secret-torture-975452.html
    The almost casual acceptance of torture by the present Administration at least, if not by the Party it represents, in spite of repeated findings of fact which make it quite clear that it has never yielded results, is puzzling. To see the "culture of torture" so openly represented seems to plumb new depths.
     
  2. belvdr macrumors 601

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    #2
    I think that depends on how deep the pit is. I don't think we have seen the bottom yet.
     
  3. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #3
    I wonder if you could get any more shameless than this smarmy piece of editorial excess.

    I've having a difficult time determining the actual subject of the piece. Is it about a right-wing Republican in Florida, who probably won't beat the Democratic incumbent? Is it about McCain? Torture? Is it about Sarah Palin, who apparently this writer is certain is not only the "darling" of the party but will be "taking the party" is some known direction in 2012?

    What a bird-walk. He needs to give his crystal ball a rest.
     
  4. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #4
    It's not all that difficult to work out that this is about torture and how easily it is accepted by a sizeable chunk of the population. Calling it a "smarmy piece of editorial excess" really contributes very little.
     
  5. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #5
    More than the piece did, I'm afraid. You should note that no evidence for how "sizable" the support for torture is in the country is provided. His evidence for this is mainly limited to one Congressional challenger in Florida, and some unsupported suggestions about Sarah Palin's view, and (even more fancifully) her future influence within the GOP -- none of which adds up to anything. This evidence doesn't even rise to the anecdotal level. Sorry, but this piece doesn't pass the logic test. It's a perfect example of shotgun journalism.
     
  6. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #6
    The Republicans will have plenty of opportunity for soul-searching after the wipe-out that is expected next week. They have, of course, the option to go back to their roots, to the party they were before the 1980s. That party didn't have a great platform either, but next to the neos it looked positively enlightened.

    If they choose instead to further embrace the kind of craziness we see from this West character, we may find that many parts of the country that are considered "safely red" will be run by total wackos, and the rest will be pushed further into the arms of the Democrats.

    I hope this doesn't come to pass. Even if it does drive more people to the Democratic party, it will mean the further polarization of America. And that won't only mean more hatred and divisiveness, it'll mean that every four years there'll be a chance that somebody like Palin or this sicko West might, just might, become president.
     
  7. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #7
    Thank you for the post. Very, very interesting editorial. I am glad to see that the PRSI forum is embracing commentary articles. I was under the mistaken impression that editorials were frowned upon. Glad I was wrong.

    Home > Opinion > Commentators > Johann Hari
     
  8. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #8
    The PRSI Forum has always had space for opinion pieces, being as it is largely a forum for the exchange and development of opinions. Please feel free to start your own, entirely fact-based thread, however.
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #9
    I gotta go with IJ on this one. I don't like it when conservatives post editorials, and I like it even less when centrists or liberals do it. I'm not interested in some writer's opinion. I'm interested in presenting facts in here, and then getting our opinions on them.
     
  10. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    Strangely, that does not seem to apply when the subject is religion, the death penalty or torture. Why with this subject? These things are fundamentally matters of opinion. Anyone can bring facts to the discussion if they feel it helps one argument or another. The facts contained in the article I posted were (a) that the candidate is an unrepentant torturer, (b) he is standing as a Republican candidate, and (c) his constituency appears to support the candidacy of such douchebags. Three salient points, in my opinion.
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #11
    If those are the points you wish to make, aren't there plenty of unbiased, fact- based articles out there to support those points?
     
  12. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #12
    Not in our MSM over here. I didn't realise that "unbiased" was a requirement. I have a particular issue with the death penalty, wars of choice and torture, as you may have noticed: this article addresses at least two of those issues.
    If you have a counter-argument to present, be my guest, but a fact-based guest, of course.
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    Skunk, we're on the same side here. But you know as well as I do that lots of members here like to post editorials as if they were facts. I don't care for that, and I know you don't either. It just makes us look bad when we turn around and post an editorial piece. That's my only point. IJ has already pointed out the problems with it.
     
  14. TheAnswer macrumors 68030

    TheAnswer

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    #14
    I think opinion articles are ok, as long the OP makes it clear that they are treating it as an opinion. A lot of trouble tends to arise when the rest of the forum members are unclear if the OP is unwisely accepting the opinion piece with the same gravitas as a traditional piece of journalism.

    When an opinion piece is posted, I'd personally like to see a more comprehensive lead-in and analysis (whether you agree with the main point of the piece or not). Even if it's just a particular point you found particularly convincing, a new take on an old subject, etc.
     
  15. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #15
    I have edited out a couple of paragraphs, leaving the fact-based core of the article. I believe the remaining part is worth reading. You may disagree, but the posted section is no more opinion-based than most articles posted here for discussion. Discuss, if you want. Move on if you don't.
     
  16. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #16
    I don't necessarily object to the posting of editorials. I thought this one was very poorly reasoned.
     
  17. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #17
    Agreed and well worth drawing our attention to. In the light of so much else that has happened recently, I had forgotten this particular feature and preferred policy of the (hopefully outgoing) Republican Government. Editorials can often serve as a sort of focussing point to draw out further discussion and argument on the topic.
    Cheers
     

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