And when Trump gets to the Vatican?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by LizKat, May 21, 2017.

  1. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #1
    This is a pretty good musing on the upcoming meeting of Trump and Pope Francis. I’ve put a rather extended excerpt below, hoping that Michael Sean Winters would not mind...



    It is not that Pope Francis sees only a spiritual crisis in the West, nor that he only blames forces external to the church. He saves his harshest language for clergy who treat the People of God in an unmerciful and high-handed way. No, his way is to encourage, to dialogue and, most especially, to go to the peripheries to see how God is at work among His chosen people, the poor and the marginalized. Francis is a kind of champion of the global south, rich in resources both material and spiritual, but heretofore excluded and manipulated or worse by the powerful. He lifts up the lowly and sends the rich away empty. He could not be more countercultural.

    Trump, on the other hand, epitomizes the emerging consumer culture of the 1950s that social critics decried. He not only likes glitzy show, it is the essence of his business empire. Trump was once a man who built buildings, but for the past twenty years or so he has mostly built only his brand. He puts his name on golf courses and ties, on steaks and on hotels. (He thinks there is some "value-added" quality to his own name, and the country evidently agreed with him last November.) Everything is over-the-top. Why have silver faucets in a bathroom when you can have gold? Why not have your own plane? At its core, his is a life that celebrates the acquisition of more and more stuff.

    "If I wanted to destroy a nation, I would give it too much and I would have it on its knees, miserable, greedy and sick," John Steinbeck wrote to his friend Adlai Stevenson in 1959. Alas, here we are.

    Instead of compassion, mercy, and reaching out to the excluded, however, Trump's recipe for coping with the problems of neoliberalism is to become most known for saying "You're fired." He stokes the anger of those who have been left behind by globalization, yet offers tax cuts to the superrich, doubling down on the trickle-down economics that largely got the nation in its fiscal mess in the first place. Instead of building a culture of solidarity, he demeans opponents and mocks the handicapped, and instead of building bridges to the excluded and marginalized, he indulges a kind of social Darwinism, characterizes desperate people as criminals, and seeks to build walls. He is a narcissist mixed with the worst personal traits of both a robber baron and a tinpot dictator, wrapped in marketing paraphernalia and glitter. Regrettably, he is also the president of the United States.

    What will they talk about?

    ---

    Well, maybe they’ll talk about Callista Gingrich, who is Trump's newly nominated US ambassador to the Vatican, and the third wife of Newt Gingrich.

    http://www.npr.org/2017/05/20/529276806/callista-gingrich-nominated-as-ambassador-to-the-vatican

    On the other hand, her nomination still requires confirmation by the Senate, and then there’s always the fact that ol’ Newt was dating Callista for a long long time while Newt was still married to his second wife. But I’d expect Trump will try to stick to pleasantries provided by his staff while he talks with the Pope, something to get around the topic of the Mexican wall on which the two have clashed in the past. Maybe they can stick to talking about how the left-behind of the planet need less talk and more action to get a real chance to catch up.
     
  2. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

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    #2
    I think the Pope will talk about caring for the environment, building bridges instead of walls, the need to take in more refugees. Trump will nod, maybe say something about St Patrick's Cathedral being in his neighborhood, manage to say something cringe worthy that I can't think up, and nothing will change.
     
  3. chown33 macrumors 604

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  4. SusanK macrumors 68000

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    #4
    Trump will tell the Pope how to run the place. Vatican never went bust. Trump can show him the ropes. Ha ha!
     
  5. smallcoffee macrumors 6502a

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    Largely agree.

    Though I do want to point out that the Pope lives in a walled city. Clearly he has an affinity for walls.
     
  6. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #6
    First thing he should do there is enter the confessional
     
  7. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

    WarHeadz

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  8. LizKat thread starter macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    Possibly. Remember, things can always be worse and probably will be :eek: at some point, but it would be nice for the whole planet if he could get through this first tour in reasonable fashion. I think travelling with his wife and Ivanka and Jared along will be a kind of steadying influence. He's seen and can see himself as less isolated than he has been lately with just his aides and other pols (and legal counsel!) around. And the negative dull roar of recent critical and bipartisan opinion at home. The mainstream press coverage this weekend has had some normal looking accounts of a presidential trip abroad, even if there's still also some press coverage that's either fawning or looking to bury him.
     
  9. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #9
    This could be an interesting meeting, but somehow, I think it will all be muted, for the sake of good feelings. :rolleyes: :oops:

    Good ole Slimey Newt, reported to have intimate relations with Callista while his second wife laying dieing in the hospital, and he championed the impeachment of Bill Clinton for having an affair for the political win. The hypicracy might turn your stomach.
     
  10. LizKat thread starter macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #10
    It might turn the pope's stomach, even if she did bring Newt into the RC religion. But he will be gracious. Some are suggesting, of course, that Callista's appointment is to reward Newt for support during the campaign. Well yeah, of course it is, otherwise who is she to Trump? I was trying to decide if it's a good thing he indirectly rewards Newt like this versus trying to bring Newt back into the government. Then I realized Trump would never do that even if Newt was up for it. Showboat competition.
     
  11. fitshaced macrumors 68000

    fitshaced

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    Trump: Hello Pope. I saw Bono once gave you his sunglasses. Here is a neck chain with my logo on it. Hey! You've got one already but with an extra piece on the top, where did you get that from?

    Pope: This crucifix?
     
  12. LizKat thread starter macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #12
    lol i think Trump's aides have schooled him better than that but you never know...

    tbh i am more concerned about how his visit to Israel goes.
     
  13. sorcery macrumors regular

    sorcery

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    #13
    Oh Liz, don't even go there! ;)
     
  14. HEK Suspended

    HEK

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    #14
    Sorry he only has a short time in Vatican. Would need to be in confessional for weeks.
     
  15. fitshaced macrumors 68000

    fitshaced

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    'You want to here my sins? I've got the best sins. No-ones got better sins than me. You wish you had sins like mine.' Trump tweets, I got the best penance from the pope. No-one got penance like I got penance.
     
  16. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

    WarHeadz

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    #16
    And he'd probably just spend the entire time bragging about his electoral college victory and fawning over all the gold in the Vatican because it reminds him of trump tower. By the time he's done that poor priest will have hung himself in the booth.
     
  17. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #17
    Well, I think the Pope will school Trump.He seems pretty no-nonsense. Curious what Pence will think of this - He's from an Irish-Catholic family and broke ranks to become Evangelical...
     
  18. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #18
    Donald Trump has spent his entire adult life living an existence that is totally without the merest hint of religious faith. I'm pretty certain that he regularly breaks a solid eight of the ten Commandments (and its probably only been a year or so since #7 was taking it on the chin. )

    Has Donald Trump ever confessed to a Sin in his life?

    The Saudis are bigger fools than I thought if they bought Trump's line of schtick. Trump's advice for them, which I interpreted as "crack down even harder on dissidents, and we'll look the other way" seems calculated to make the Middle East problems get even worse in the coming decades.

    Somehow I think Pope Francis isn't going to fall for Trump's brand of gold-plated crap quite so easily.
     
  19. HEK Suspended

    HEK

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    #19
    I can make sins great again
     
  20. fischersd macrumors 601

    fischersd

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    #20
    What meeting? Trump will burst into flames the moment one of his feet *ahem* hooves touches holy ground. ;)

    But, let's say that doesn't happen... 'Pope was heard muttering "WHAT an A55HOLE!!!" as the Presidential motorcade drove away' :D "Excommunicate 'merica!" ;)
     
  21. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    Trump will probably explain to the pope all the ways Jesus got it wrong, and what Jesus should've done.

    "You should stop paying attention to the Bible and get your lessons from my book, "The Art of the Deal". I mean, Jesus...they crucified him, right? Total loser."

    Then he'll give the pope a really tall "Make America Great Again" hat.
     
  22. LizKat thread starter macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #22

    LOL. This pope has sure admonished some bishops around the globe whose lifestyle had got way out of hand, and not only in the USA.

    I do wonder what Trump will give the Pope. "Something appropriate" is the responsibility of his aides so hopefully he just allows the choice to be made at that level. Mostly I just hope they have a smoothed over encounter and that a bolt of lightning doesn't strike the place while he's there.
     
  23. fitshaced macrumors 68000

    fitshaced

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    #23
    Pope: Say our ladies prayer with me Donaldo
    Trump: Sure er... Fail Mary
    Pope: Hail Mary
    Trump: Hail Mary
    Pope: Full of...
    Trump: Full of ... em...
    Pope: ?? Rhymes with space!!!!
    Trump: Mace!
    Pope: Grace!!! Ah forget it. Donate over there.
     
  24. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #24
    I think he'd need confession assistance.
     
  25. LizKat thread starter macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #25
    Well in the piece in the OP link, the author offered a link back to remarks Trump had made at a Family Leadership Summit in Ames, Iowa in July of 2015 (and the author also tacked on the entertaining bit of snark that I have bolded below):

    When asked if he prays and asks for forgiveness [4], he said, "I am not sure I have. I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so. I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't." Praying and not asking for forgiveness of one's sins is like going to McDonald's and not getting the fries; It sort of misses the point.

    [4] http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/trump-has-never-sought-forgiveness/

    Now that cited CNN piece also went on to say this, which the NCR blogger mercifully omitted quoting, for the sake of his own and probably mostly Catholic readership: (I am not so merciful)

    Trump said that while he hasn't asked God for forgiveness, he does participate in Holy Communion.

    "When I drink my little wine -- which is about the only wine I drink -- and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed," he said. "I think in terms of 'let's go on and let's make it right.'"
    I have enough missteps of my own to account for, on a daily basis, so I had half-hesitated to bash Trump for however he tries to get right with the God of his own belief. But, I am so imperfect... so in the end I'm willing to add to the dark side of my ledger right here and say I think the NCR blogger had it right about Trump's self-described approach to pray as "sort of missing the point". Maybe more than "sort of".
     

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