Angela Merkel on Muslim immigrants

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by likemyorbs, Oct 17, 2010.

  1. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #1
    Just finished reading this article. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101017/wl_afp/germanymuslimreligionimmigration#mwpphu-container

    Angela Merkel says all immigrants have an obligation to integrate and embrace christian values in germany. she is specifically targeting muslims.
    "We feel tied to Christian values. Those who don't accept them don't have a place here,"
    Just out of curiosity i wonder how she feels about jews, since they don't really embrace "christian" values. but i think she's mainly talking about muslims.
    In a way, i agree with her on a few things. I get annoyed when immigrants make no effort to assimilate in america, and i would hate to see europe completely overrun by muslims walking around in full body burqas. Many of them do tend to resist assimilation. Of course now Angela Merkel is being called a nazi. What do you guys think about her comments?
     
  2. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #2
    Myopic and divisive and lowest common denominator politics.
     
  3. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #3
    I think she expressed an ignorant opinion.

    I likewise think your fear of Europe being "overrun" by Muslims is equally ignorant.
     
  4. lbro macrumors 6502a

    lbro

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    #4
    What do you think of this?
    Watch the whole video to the end.
     
  5. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    Really? I think is a legitimate concern. Islam is part religion, part political movement.
     
  6. Burnsey macrumors 6502a

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    Religion is always and has always been a partly (mainly) political movement/tool. I do agree with assimilation though, if one moves to another country then they should expect this. However "Christian values" is where she loses me.
     
  7. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    Yeah, i really wish she wouldn't use that wording. I would rather she say SECULAR values.
     
  8. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #8
    Two points...

    1. Assimilation - That anyone must assimilate to their new culture is bullcrap. Cultural assimilation, if it happens is something that occurs in its own way, in its own time. It shouldn't be required or forced or even expected.

    All across America there are pockets of people who held on to their unique culture and that diversity enriches this nation immeasurably. San Francisco's Chinatown didn't become the treasure that it is because people assimilated, it became a treasure because people held on to their culture. I imagine the same holds true for pockets of diversity in Germany

    And what would you ask someone to assimilate to? In a nation so rich with diversity, what model are they expected to follow? The only requirement that any immigrant should meet is to follow the laws... not some mythical cultural "norm".

    2. Overrunning - You and Walooshin can share a beer over your fears that some small minority is going to overrun a nation. It takes decades, if not centuries for populations to shift as you're suggesting. Even if Europe did change over time to become a more predominantly Muslim continent, there's nothing wrong with that. Christians don't own the world. White people don't own the world. We don't get to freeze things in their current state and say "That's it! I'm happy with the way things are. No changies from here on out!"
     
  9. freeny macrumors 68020

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  10. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    Regarding "assimilation", I'd like to also point out that many times minority immigrant groups are discouraged from assimilating themselves into the society of their new country. I'm not saying they are actively discouraged, but in the case of France, ethnic minorities can be made to feel so unwelcome in their own country that often times they have nowhere to turn but the culture of their old country. In the case of third generation "immigrants" (I'm talking about children or grandchildren of immigrants - those born in France and with no ties to the country of their parents or grandparents), they have neither a "default" culture, and yet are made to feel like outsiders by their own country.

    The ethnic majority does this for a lot of reasons, but it simply comes down to race and religion most of the time. Since new immigrants aren't really given a chance to assimilate (due to their race or religion), the ethnic majority can continue to berate the ethnic minorities for "refusing" to assimilate to the majority culture.
     
  11. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    Yes, there is something seriously wrong with that. It has nothing to do with white christians owning the world. It has to do with western values and the need to defend them from a religion that is against them. If this religion becomes predominant in the West, this whole world will be under sharia law. No thanks, i like women to dress like women, not black ghosts.
     
  12. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #12
    Care to define what you consider to be "western values"?
     
  13. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #13
    Better get busy building those fences... and maybe starting another war or two.

    That'll solve things. :rolleyes:
     
  14. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    Yeah, ain't the majority horrible? No one is berating anyone, this isn't 19th century america not liking irish people or catholics. In 21st century america or europe, people who want to assimilate can. Where do you live that people are berated for their race or religion on a regular basis?
     
  15. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Sure happens often enough here at MR.

    Read your own posts lately?
     
  16. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    Sure! Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, women being able to make their own choices and not have to rely on husbands and be forced into marriage as teenagers. Support for gay rights, not being ruled by an oppressive religion based government that stones women to death after giving them 99 lashes for "adultery". That about sums it up. And what kind of countries are those that do that? Pretty sure those countries are predominantly muslim. So excuse me for not welcoming that with open arms.

    Yeah i have, did i say muslims can't assimilate into western culture? On the contrary, i wish the majority of them would, but they dont.
     
  17. rkmac macrumors 6502

    rkmac

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    Majority? Stats please. Back up these claims.
    Sure, I dont live in Europe, I live in New Zealand. But to see someone making such a sweeping claim makes me a bit sick.
     
  18. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #18
    That took a two second google search. I guess this article will make you a bit sick too? http://www.cfr.org/publication/8252/europe.html

    This isn't any new information. I don't see why it's so shocking to you. Im simply stating factual information about what is going on in europe, and giving my opinion that i dont like it.
     
  19. HarryPot macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    That video is almost full of BS.

    Watch this links to get a better idea o muslim immigration in Europe:
    1- BBC / Debunking a YouTube hit
    2- Muslim Demographics

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    In my opinion something must be done to protect the current cultures. Muslims can go to anyplace they want, but they do need to adapt to the country they go to, not try and change everything about it so it becomes more similar to their natal country.

    I believe that most muslims are good people, but there is something about their culture that I really don't like. For giving one example, the rights of women.
     
  20. rkmac macrumors 6502

    rkmac

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    #20
    It all makes me a bit sick. In New Zealand, its not like this at all. We are all pretty recent immigrants in the grand scheme of things here.
    I wonder if people look back in a few hundred years in Europe and think "Why did we fight over cultural identity then, when we are all just (Insert nationality here)" or "We have lost our culture".
    Btw, I'm not pro- or anti-islam. I just get on with life despite others religious views :p
     
  21. rkmac macrumors 6502

    rkmac

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    #21
    Every time the guy in that video said "MUSLIM" in an ominous voice, I mentally changed it to "Human" and it made it a bit better.
    Who cares about your demographic? They're people, you're people. That whole video was a one big load of racist crap. It wasnt even saying "Muslims are criminals and terrorists and thats why we dont want them", it was just "Muslims arent human and we are all xenophobes".
     
  22. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    Of course it's the same thing here in the US. My family only came here in the 1970's from Ukraine. My sister and i are the first generation born here. My family all promptly learned english when they got here and adopted the culture 100%. Which is why i cant understand why some others refuse to do the same. I cant believe some people have the audacity to wear a full body cover in a western country. And as for your vision of europe in a few hundred years, its a bit idealistic, don't count on it.

    Except when their people make up a majority, your people start losing their civil rights. If the world was that sweet we wouldn't have these issues. It's not as simple as you seem to think it is
     
  23. rkmac macrumors 6502

    rkmac

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    #23
    I dont agree that it is completely their fault for not integrating. There are various reasons why someone may not. Among them is a sense of belonging. If they weren't made welcome in the beginning, they may feel they dont want to integrate. This leads to even more negative sentiment from others and then they feel even less welcome (its basically a vicious circle).

    Secondly, I have nothing against the burqa . It is a sign of their religion. Thats like a christian coming to a non-christian country and being told to not wear a cross necklace or something similar.

    Edit: Im also over this conversation now :p I dont know why I even started. I've seen these sorts of boards before. I'm not going to change anyones views.
     
  24. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #24
    Actually, you probably don't want to wear a cross or star of david in the middle east. And if you're a woman you must wear a head scarf, even if you're just visiting and you're not a muslim. So if they can force a visitor to wear something as a sign of respect to their culture, why is it so wrong if we do the same?
     
  25. rkmac macrumors 6502

    rkmac

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    #25
    Couldnt resist this one.
    Just because they do it, does that mean you should too? /deep moral thought

    And now I'm really gone. Thanks for the debate, stuff like this livens up my day.
     

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