anger, arguments and division over politics

OutThere

macrumors 603
Original poster
Dec 19, 2002
5,730
0
NYC
Anyone else having a lot of arguments with friends and family (in real life/school/work) over political issues lately?

I've always had friends from all over the political spectrum and have prided myself on being able to keep political issues out of everyday conversation, even though I'm a political science major and pretty into it. I have a couple of conservative friends whose only source of political news is Fox and Rush Limbaugh, and who continually make snide little comments about Obama, healthcare and government in general. Lately I guess I've lost my self control and keep getting into it with them. They seem particularly riled up, like everything said is a personal attack. Family members as well.

There just seems to be a lot of hatred out there. Do I maybe need to take a break from reading political websites and arguing on forums? :eek:
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
Anyone else having a lot of arguments with friends and family (in real life/school/work) over political issues lately?

I've always had friends from all over the political spectrum and have prided myself on being able to keep political issues out of everyday conversation, even though I'm a political science major and pretty into it. I have a couple of conservative friends whose only source of political news is Fox and Rush Limbaugh, and who continually make snide little comments about Obama, healthcare and government in general. Lately I guess I've lost my self control and keep getting into it with them. They seem particularly riled up, like everything said is a personal attack. Family members as well.

There just seems to be a lot of hatred out there. Do I maybe need to take a break from reading political websites and arguing on forums? :eek:
The dems and insurance companies are celebrating a victory, everyone else is waiting for the disaster once this plan comes to fruition. A large amount of people were ignored to put this bill through, they are going to be pissed. Even more so when they see the insurance company CEO's pay check next year.
 

IntheNet

macrumors regular
Oct 6, 2009
190
0
Lately I guess I've lost my self control and keep getting into it with them. They seem particularly riled up, like everything said is a personal attack. Family members as well.
ObamaCare has engendered class warfare attacks simply because most Americans did not support what the Democrats and Obama forced upon the nation. Animosity over this issue is not your fault nor you family's fault; the jamming of this socialistic health care upon America prompts rebellion and anger. Democrats and insurance companies celebrate, as Zombie Acorn notes above. Class warfare is one of those Marxist tactics of change so it is not surprising it is upsetting to American families.
 

paddy

macrumors 6502a
Jun 25, 2005
653
0
TN
The Liberals had the War in Iraq and now the Conservatives have Healthcare Reform. The Pendulum swings as it always has. Divide and Conquer.
Except the reform should save lives while the unnecessary war killed tens of thousands?
 

Rt&Dzine

macrumors 6502a
Oct 8, 2008
736
5
No political arguments in my real life. Most of the conservatives I know aren't the teabagger types. So I have to come to PRSI . . .
 

mcrain

macrumors 68000
Feb 8, 2002
1,768
11
Illinois
ObamaCare has engendered class warfare attacks simply because most Americans did not support what the Democrats and Obama forced upon the nation. Animosity over this issue is not your fault nor you family's fault; the jamming of this socialistic health care upon America prompts rebellion and anger. Democrats and insurance companies celebrate, as Zombie Acorn notes above. Class warfare is one of those Marxist tactics of change so it is not surprising it is upsetting to American families.
How can you say that with a straight face? The republicans agree that our country requires health care reform. They disagreed about some of the choices that the democrats chose, and they finally offered some suggestions which were incorporated by the democrats. (Not to mention 200 GOP amendments). The republicans lost the white house and lost their majorities in congress, so they don't represent the majority of Americans. What am I missing here? Is there some majority I'm not aware of? Are you referring to polls that change depending on who does the poll, what questions are asked, or how much the poll takers know? If so, I'm sorry, but the last election is the only poll that matters, and the GOP does NOT represent the majority anymore.

The GOP is the minority party, and they were invited by the democrats to negotiate in good faith for the benefit of the American people. They chose to play politics and distort the facts (at best) and lie (at worst) to their own constituents. If they had been under oath, they would have been impeached! Any republican who mentioned death panels or killing grandma should be shunned by their own party. If you vote for them, you are voting for a liar. You are voting for someone who is willing to lie for political gain.

Wait, that's been the GOP theme since Iraq. I don't know why I'm surprised.

I understand you believe the democrats legislating is what got people riled up, but have you actually listened to Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, or any of the other conservative media personalities? They LOVE getting people riled up because it increased their ratings. They aren't in it for the American people, they are in it for the money. They've admitted that they aren't news people, but entertainers, and pure capitlists. Money wins, not principals.
 

pooky

macrumors 6502
Jun 2, 2003
356
1
If you vote for them, you are voting for a liar. You are voting for someone who is willing to lie for political gain.
Fixed.

In all seriousness, you make good points, but you may as well be screaming at a brick wall for all the good it will do you.

I've noticed a trend in these forums of late. Forgetting threads that are specifically made to call people like ITN out, most threads that are looking for actual discussion go something like this:

1. OP
2. A few replies that look like they may start some interesting discussion.
3. ITN, FoW, or one of the other clones comes in and makes some completely ridiculous comment.
4. All discussion collapses as people attack the crazy. Except they do it expecting discussion out of these people/bots, not realizing they're just encouraging them to post more crazy.

ITN is the worst kind of troll. He appears to actually believe the **** he's shoveling. You will never get rationality out of him. Give him attention, and he only posts more. My suggestion is to simply ignore all of the insane posts by ITN and others like him, and carry on rational discussion with folks who are capable and interested. If nobody responds to this crap, where's the incentive for him to post it?

(Incidentally, most of these users are on my ignore list. As a result, I never see the crazy, only the aftermath. So it really does look like everyone's yelling at a brick wall. Hilarious.)
 

CaptMurdock

Suspended
Jan 2, 2009
577
1,966
The Evildrome Boozerama
^^^ and now OP you see why arguments happen. People no longer discuss things, they shout them down. There is no longer any compromise but annihilation. Its winner-takes-all in politics as well as in life.
This, and it's hard to have intelligent discussions when the other side uses outright lies to back up their outdated ideology.
 

IntheNet

macrumors regular
Oct 6, 2009
190
0
The republicans agree that our country requires health care reform. They disagreed about some of the choices that the democrats chose, and they finally offered some suggestions which were incorporated by the democrats.
Most if not all of the amendments surfaced by Republicans were shot down and executed by Democrats... which suggestions are you alleging were "incorporated"?

The republicans lost the white house and lost their majorities in congress, so they don't represent the majority of Americans.
I disagree.

What am I missing here? Is there some majority I'm not aware of?
The largest majority of course; that of the American citizen, who liberals demonized in Tea Party gatherings and at Town Halls. The vast majority of America hates this Democrat takeover of health care, are scared of it, and and do not appreciate the indenturing of their children to generations of debt slavery that Democrats have orchestrated.

Are you referring to polls that change depending on who does the poll, what questions are asked, or how much the poll takers know? If so, I'm sorry, but the last election is the only poll that matters, and the GOP does NOT represent the majority anymore.
Show me a poll that shows a clear majority supporting the Dem Health care junta? While portions support parts of the legislation, the assembled whole never attracted majority support. Pelosi and Co. ignored her constituency to ram this full frontal assault upon innocent Americans; we now can't even report the crime of generation theft.

The GOP is the minority party, and they were invited by the democrats to negotiate in good faith for the benefit of the American people.
Invited? Do you do stand up comedy routinely or just herein? The Democrats were never interested in minority input, nor input from Americans in general. WHY DO YOU THINK PELOSI AND CO. HAD TO RAM THIS THING THROUGH BEFORE EASTER BREAK? She didn't want her Democrat pals to hear from their constituents!

They chose to play politics and distort the facts (at best) and lie (at worst) to their own constituents. If they had been under oath, they would have been impeached! Any republican who mentioned death panels or killing grandma should be shunned by their own party. If you vote for them, you are voting for a liar. You are voting for someone who is willing to lie for political gain.
Lies? How 'bout these =>

S-CHIP Legislation => lie that legislation would be posted five days before signature, et al.

Lie?

Health care Legislation => Lie that CNN would broadcast all health care negotiations and no backdoor/closedoor legislation would take place, et al.

Lie?

Open Government => Lie that administration policy would be open and transparent.

I understand you believe the democrats legislating is what got people riled up, but have you actually listened to Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, or any of the other conservative media personalities? They LOVE getting people riled up because it increased their ratings. They aren't in it for the American people, they are in it for the money. They've admitted that they aren't news people, but entertainers, and pure capitlists. Money wins, not principals.
I am quite sure that these political pundits are reflecting the will and sentiment of the majority of Americans. How do we know that? Their ratings. Meanwhile, puppets of the Baracky Administration, Maddow, Matthews, Blitzer, Couric, et al., have to beg their neighbors to watch just so the cable industry doesn't cancel their listings. Did you know that MSNBC & CNN were beaten last week in the ratings by the Cartoon Network? That's actually appropriate in the final analysis!
 

mcrain

macrumors 68000
Feb 8, 2002
1,768
11
Illinois
Most if not all of the amendments surfaced by Republicans were shot down and executed by Democrats... which suggestions are you alleging were "incorporated"?
There were 160 republican amendments when coming out of committee, and over 200 to the bill that was signed. President Obama incorporated some GOP suggestions after the health care summit. Oh, and the dems weren't the ones shooting down the GOP amendments...
This is a revealing moment from Monday's markup of the health care bill in the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) Committee that illustrates the level of procedural obstruction Senate Republicans are willing to rise to in order to impede its progress and in the hopes of killing its momentum.

At the opening of Monday's hearing, Sen. Dodd asked Sen. Enzi (R-WY), the ranking Republican on the committee, if he would agree to accept by unanimous consent a total of 64 Republican amendments. After a whisper from an aide, Enzi, a little perplexed and not a little embarrassed, refused to allow the 64 Republican amendments to be accepted, lowering his voice to mumble, "I think some of our members want votes on some of those." Dodd's visible exasperation and disbelief is priceless.
The largest majority of course; that of the American citizen, who liberals demonized in Tea Party gatherings and at Town Halls. The vast majority of America hates this Democrat takeover of health care, are scared of it, and and do not appreciate the indenturing of their children to generations of debt slavery that Democrats have orchestrated.
The majority of Americans are not represented by the Tea Party or the people who were trying to disrupt the townhalls. The majority of Americans were people who attended town halls so that they could learn about what Congress was doing, and ask questions. The tea party and the astroturf people at the town halls actively tried to prevent the majority of regular Americans from learning the truth about health care reform. The GOP then embraced the lie, decieve and distort tactics of the tea parties, and for that, they should be ashamed. If you can't sell your constuents on your ideas with the truth, then you shouldn't be in congress because you are not a statesman.

Show me a poll that shows a clear majority supporting the Dem Health care junta? While portions support parts of the legislation, the assembled whole never attracted majority support.
Yes, the assembled whole left a lot to be desired, but at least you admit that the parts are approved by the majority.
Pelosi and Co. ignored her constituency to ram this full frontal assault upon innocent Americans; we now can't even report the crime of generation theft.
It's sausage. No fun to watch being made, but hey, after it sits in the pan for a while, it sure tastes good.

Invited? Do you do stand up comedy routinely or just herein? The Democrats were never interested in minority input, nor input from Americans in general. WHY DO YOU THINK PELOSI AND CO. HAD TO RAM THIS THING THROUGH BEFORE EASTER BREAK? She didn't want her Democrat pals to hear from their constituents!
Show me a link to a single story in which the GOP approached anyone from the majority party to negotiate in good faith any GOP suggested changes/additions. Start over, scrap the bill, kill the bill, do nothing... those don't count.


Lies? How 'bout these =>

S-CHIP Legislation => lie that legislation would be posted five days before signature, et al.

Lie?

Health care Legislation => Lie that CNN would broadcast all health care negotiations and no backdoor/closedoor legislation would take place, et al.

Lie?

Open Government => Lie that administration policy would be open and transparent.
That's your complaint? Really? LOL. Was there a single lie about the content of what was being done?

You equate a president signing a landmark piece of legislation to provide health insurance for children faster, and without the delay he had promised as the same thing as the GOP lying about killing grandma?

I am quite sure that these political pundits are reflecting the will and sentiment of the majority of Americans.
i.e. their audience, not necessarily the majority of Americans.
How do we know that? Their ratings. Meanwhile, puppets of the Baracky Administration, Maddow, Matthews, Blitzer, Couric, et al., have to beg their neighbors to watch just so the cable industry doesn't cancel their listings.
Baracky? Your un-American, unpatriotic vitriol is disgusting. In the years that Bush was doing his level best to destroy this country, republicans called democrats unAmerican and treasonous. Guess what, the GOP is actually advocating treason. "The chair is against the wall." "Waiting for the go signal." Better buy up some guns, we're gonna revolt! R I Diculous.
Did you know that MSNBC & CNN were beaten last week in the ratings by the Cartoon Network? That's actually appropriate in the final analysis!
It is appropriate considering as soon as Limbaugh/Beck/et. al are over, that's where their listeners go for their entertainment.
 

str1f3

macrumors 68000
Aug 24, 2008
1,859
0
2 things:

United we stand, divided we fall

&

All governments are lying cock suckers.
Very wise statement. Unfortunately divided we fall is already happening. Maybe it always has to some extent.

Unfortunately the US has become like Microsoft. The system has become corrupt, the country has become bloated, slow to move and to embrace new technologies because they're conservative and set in their ways. Other countries are far ahead. Like MS, we have enough influence to stay relevant but that always fades.

Every empire eventually falls. We are now watching the decline of the US enterprise.
 

Surely

Guest
Oct 27, 2007
15,043
8
Los Angeles, CA
Fixed.

In all seriousness, you make good points, but you may as well be screaming at a brick wall for all the good it will do you.

I've noticed a trend in these forums of late. Forgetting threads that are specifically made to call people like ITN out, most threads that are looking for actual discussion go something like this:

1. OP
2. A few replies that look like they may start some interesting discussion.
3. ITN, FoW, or one of the other clones comes in and makes some completely ridiculous comment.
4. All discussion collapses as people attack the crazy. Except they do it expecting discussion out of these people/bots, not realizing they're just encouraging them to post more crazy.

ITN is the worst kind of troll. He appears to actually believe the **** he's shoveling. You will never get rationality out of him. Give him attention, and he only posts more. My suggestion is to simply ignore all of the insane posts by ITN and others like him, and carry on rational discussion with folks who are capable and interested. If nobody responds to this crap, where's the incentive for him to post it?

(Incidentally, most of these users are on my ignore list. As a result, I never see the crazy, only the aftermath. So it really does look like everyone's yelling at a brick wall. Hilarious.)
Yup, that's pretty much how things run around here. That's why I pretty much stay away from PRSI.
 

toontra

macrumors 6502
Feb 6, 2003
261
0
London UK
Yup, that's pretty much how things run around here. That's why I pretty much stay away from PRSI.
Yep. ITN and FoW have been on my ignore list for months but I'm forced to read their bile-filled garbage quoted endlessly. They, and a couple of other far-right fruitcakes, have effectively hijacked this forum and traduced the level of discourse to the gutter. I hope for the US' sake that they are not representative of a groundswell of genuine public opinion - if so your country is in deep trouble.
 

Shivetya

macrumors 68000
Jan 16, 2008
1,543
223
There just seems to be a lot of hatred out there. Do I maybe need to take a break from reading political websites and arguing on forums? :eek:
of those friends I have who argue politics I find the most liberal to be the most obnoxious, let alone racist. Though I can get a few of my conservative friends sputtering because my libertarian viewpoint don't work for them well either.

so, given your obvious to the point of screaming at the top your lungs bias displayed by your original post I can safely say I think the common denominator in your problem is you.
 

Surely

Guest
Oct 27, 2007
15,043
8
Los Angeles, CA
of those friends I have who argue politics I find the most liberal to be the most obnoxious, let alone racist. Though I can get a few of my conservative friends sputtering because my libertarian viewpoint don't work for them well either.

so, given your obvious to the point of screaming at the top your lungs bias displayed by your original post I can safely say I think the common denominator in your problem is you.
For your first paragraph, what's your point?

The most obnoxious (when it comes to politics) and racist people I know are this family of blind sheep-Republicans, who refuse to use their brains, who are on Medicare but do not equate it with government healthcare, who believe all of those BS chain emails they receive, love Fox News and don't understand that much of that channel is opinion, and don't think that Obama is president because he's black. They think they are superior to everyone else because of their religion and ethnicity (which I won't bother specifying, but you wouldn't be happy with the specifics). I just don't talk politics with them, and all is good.

Your second paragraph is ridiculous and just provides proof of the OP's original concerns. Oh, and I couldn't disagree more.:rolleyes:
 

.Andy

macrumors 68030
Jul 18, 2004
2,946
583
The Mergui Archipelago
The Liberals had the War in Iraq and now the Conservatives have Healthcare Reform.
So one side got motivated under an illegal and unsupported war that resulted in the destabilisation of an entire country/region, sent the US into massive debt, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, killed thousands of american men and woman, tortured people, held them illegally, and lost the US any shred of authority it had.

The other got motivated at a healthcare bill with the aim of providing basic healthcare services to those who are most vulnerable in society.
 

flopticalcube

macrumors G4
So one side got motivated under an illegal and unsupported war that resulted in the destabilisation of an entire country/region, sent the US into massive debt, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, killed thousands of american men and woman, tortured people, held them illegally, and lost the US any shred of authority it had.

The other got motivated at a healthcare bill with the aim of providing basic healthcare services to those who are most vulnerable in society.
To be fair, its a point of view thing.

On the one hand you had people defending the freedom of the west and bringing a tyrant to justice and on the other you had handouts to people who refuse to work for themselves. Not saying I support this view but that is the general conservative point of view.
 

StruckANerve

macrumors 6502
Dec 31, 2008
392
0
Rio Rancho, NM
So one side got motivated under an illegal and unsupported war that resulted in the destabilisation of an entire country/region, sent the US into massive debt, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, killed thousands of american men and woman, tortured people, held them illegally, and lost the US any shred of authority it had.

The other got motivated at a healthcare bill with the aim of providing basic healthcare services to those who are most vulnerable in society.
Pretty much.
 

KingYaba

macrumors 68040
Aug 7, 2005
3,415
12
Up the irons
Label yourself conservative or liberal and suddenly you're not credible because some other self-describing liberal of conservative did or said things that go against the ideology.