anger, arguments and division over politics

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by OutThere, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    NYC
    #1
    Anyone else having a lot of arguments with friends and family (in real life/school/work) over political issues lately?

    I've always had friends from all over the political spectrum and have prided myself on being able to keep political issues out of everyday conversation, even though I'm a political science major and pretty into it. I have a couple of conservative friends whose only source of political news is Fox and Rush Limbaugh, and who continually make snide little comments about Obama, healthcare and government in general. Lately I guess I've lost my self control and keep getting into it with them. They seem particularly riled up, like everything said is a personal attack. Family members as well.

    There just seems to be a lot of hatred out there. Do I maybe need to take a break from reading political websites and arguing on forums? :eek:
     
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #2
    The dems and insurance companies are celebrating a victory, everyone else is waiting for the disaster once this plan comes to fruition. A large amount of people were ignored to put this bill through, they are going to be pissed. Even more so when they see the insurance company CEO's pay check next year.
     
  3. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #3
    ObamaCare has engendered class warfare attacks simply because most Americans did not support what the Democrats and Obama forced upon the nation. Animosity over this issue is not your fault nor you family's fault; the jamming of this socialistic health care upon America prompts rebellion and anger. Democrats and insurance companies celebrate, as Zombie Acorn notes above. Class warfare is one of those Marxist tactics of change so it is not surprising it is upsetting to American families.
     
  4. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #4
    ^^^ and now OP you see why arguments happen. People no longer discuss things, they shout them down. There is no longer any compromise but annihilation. Its winner-takes-all in politics as well as in life.
     
  5. StruckANerve macrumors 6502

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    Dec 31, 2008
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    Rio Rancho, NM
    #5
    The Liberals had the War in Iraq and now the Conservatives have Healthcare Reform. The Pendulum swings as it always has. Divide and Conquer.
     
  6. paddy macrumors 6502a

    paddy

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    #6
    Except the reform should save lives while the unnecessary war killed tens of thousands?
     
  7. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #7
    Picky, picky, picky...
     
  8. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #8
    Impassioned people tend to do and say crass things.
     
  9. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #9
    No political arguments in my real life. Most of the conservatives I know aren't the teabagger types. So I have to come to PRSI . . .
     
  10. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #10
    How can you say that with a straight face? The republicans agree that our country requires health care reform. They disagreed about some of the choices that the democrats chose, and they finally offered some suggestions which were incorporated by the democrats. (Not to mention 200 GOP amendments). The republicans lost the white house and lost their majorities in congress, so they don't represent the majority of Americans. What am I missing here? Is there some majority I'm not aware of? Are you referring to polls that change depending on who does the poll, what questions are asked, or how much the poll takers know? If so, I'm sorry, but the last election is the only poll that matters, and the GOP does NOT represent the majority anymore.

    The GOP is the minority party, and they were invited by the democrats to negotiate in good faith for the benefit of the American people. They chose to play politics and distort the facts (at best) and lie (at worst) to their own constituents. If they had been under oath, they would have been impeached! Any republican who mentioned death panels or killing grandma should be shunned by their own party. If you vote for them, you are voting for a liar. You are voting for someone who is willing to lie for political gain.

    Wait, that's been the GOP theme since Iraq. I don't know why I'm surprised.

    I understand you believe the democrats legislating is what got people riled up, but have you actually listened to Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, or any of the other conservative media personalities? They LOVE getting people riled up because it increased their ratings. They aren't in it for the American people, they are in it for the money. They've admitted that they aren't news people, but entertainers, and pure capitlists. Money wins, not principals.
     
  11. pooky macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    #11
    Fixed.

    In all seriousness, you make good points, but you may as well be screaming at a brick wall for all the good it will do you.

    I've noticed a trend in these forums of late. Forgetting threads that are specifically made to call people like ITN out, most threads that are looking for actual discussion go something like this:

    1. OP
    2. A few replies that look like they may start some interesting discussion.
    3. ITN, FoW, or one of the other clones comes in and makes some completely ridiculous comment.
    4. All discussion collapses as people attack the crazy. Except they do it expecting discussion out of these people/bots, not realizing they're just encouraging them to post more crazy.

    ITN is the worst kind of troll. He appears to actually believe the **** he's shoveling. You will never get rationality out of him. Give him attention, and he only posts more. My suggestion is to simply ignore all of the insane posts by ITN and others like him, and carry on rational discussion with folks who are capable and interested. If nobody responds to this crap, where's the incentive for him to post it?

    (Incidentally, most of these users are on my ignore list. As a result, I never see the crazy, only the aftermath. So it really does look like everyone's yelling at a brick wall. Hilarious.)
     
  12. CaptMurdock macrumors 6502a

    CaptMurdock

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    #12
    This, and it's hard to have intelligent discussions when the other side uses outright lies to back up their outdated ideology.
     
  13. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    Oct 6, 2009
    #13
    Most if not all of the amendments surfaced by Republicans were shot down and executed by Democrats... which suggestions are you alleging were "incorporated"?

    I disagree.

    The largest majority of course; that of the American citizen, who liberals demonized in Tea Party gatherings and at Town Halls. The vast majority of America hates this Democrat takeover of health care, are scared of it, and and do not appreciate the indenturing of their children to generations of debt slavery that Democrats have orchestrated.

    Show me a poll that shows a clear majority supporting the Dem Health care junta? While portions support parts of the legislation, the assembled whole never attracted majority support. Pelosi and Co. ignored her constituency to ram this full frontal assault upon innocent Americans; we now can't even report the crime of generation theft.

    Invited? Do you do stand up comedy routinely or just herein? The Democrats were never interested in minority input, nor input from Americans in general. WHY DO YOU THINK PELOSI AND CO. HAD TO RAM THIS THING THROUGH BEFORE EASTER BREAK? She didn't want her Democrat pals to hear from their constituents!

    Lies? How 'bout these =>

    S-CHIP Legislation => lie that legislation would be posted five days before signature, et al.

    Lie?

    Health care Legislation => Lie that CNN would broadcast all health care negotiations and no backdoor/closedoor legislation would take place, et al.

    Lie?

    Open Government => Lie that administration policy would be open and transparent.

    I am quite sure that these political pundits are reflecting the will and sentiment of the majority of Americans. How do we know that? Their ratings. Meanwhile, puppets of the Baracky Administration, Maddow, Matthews, Blitzer, Couric, et al., have to beg their neighbors to watch just so the cable industry doesn't cancel their listings. Did you know that MSNBC & CNN were beaten last week in the ratings by the Cartoon Network? That's actually appropriate in the final analysis!
     
  14. StruckANerve macrumors 6502

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    #14
    Irrelevant. The media wants the country divided, they don't care what the issue is.
     
  15. Disc Golfer macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    #15
    2 things:

    United we stand, divided we fall

    &

    All governments are lying cock suckers.
     
  16. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Illinois
    #16
    There were 160 republican amendments when coming out of committee, and over 200 to the bill that was signed. President Obama incorporated some GOP suggestions after the health care summit. Oh, and the dems weren't the ones shooting down the GOP amendments...
    The majority of Americans are not represented by the Tea Party or the people who were trying to disrupt the townhalls. The majority of Americans were people who attended town halls so that they could learn about what Congress was doing, and ask questions. The tea party and the astroturf people at the town halls actively tried to prevent the majority of regular Americans from learning the truth about health care reform. The GOP then embraced the lie, decieve and distort tactics of the tea parties, and for that, they should be ashamed. If you can't sell your constuents on your ideas with the truth, then you shouldn't be in congress because you are not a statesman.

    Yes, the assembled whole left a lot to be desired, but at least you admit that the parts are approved by the majority.
    It's sausage. No fun to watch being made, but hey, after it sits in the pan for a while, it sure tastes good.

    Show me a link to a single story in which the GOP approached anyone from the majority party to negotiate in good faith any GOP suggested changes/additions. Start over, scrap the bill, kill the bill, do nothing... those don't count.


    That's your complaint? Really? LOL. Was there a single lie about the content of what was being done?

    You equate a president signing a landmark piece of legislation to provide health insurance for children faster, and without the delay he had promised as the same thing as the GOP lying about killing grandma?

    i.e. their audience, not necessarily the majority of Americans.
    Baracky? Your un-American, unpatriotic vitriol is disgusting. In the years that Bush was doing his level best to destroy this country, republicans called democrats unAmerican and treasonous. Guess what, the GOP is actually advocating treason. "The chair is against the wall." "Waiting for the go signal." Better buy up some guns, we're gonna revolt! R I Diculous.
    It is appropriate considering as soon as Limbaugh/Beck/et. al are over, that's where their listeners go for their entertainment.
     
  17. str1f3 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    #17
    Very wise statement. Unfortunately divided we fall is already happening. Maybe it always has to some extent.

    Unfortunately the US has become like Microsoft. The system has become corrupt, the country has become bloated, slow to move and to embrace new technologies because they're conservative and set in their ways. Other countries are far ahead. Like MS, we have enough influence to stay relevant but that always fades.

    Every empire eventually falls. We are now watching the decline of the US enterprise.
     
  18. Surely Guest

    Surely

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    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    #18
    Yup, that's pretty much how things run around here. That's why I pretty much stay away from PRSI.
     
  19. toontra macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Location:
    London UK
    #19
    Yep. ITN and FoW have been on my ignore list for months but I'm forced to read their bile-filled garbage quoted endlessly. They, and a couple of other far-right fruitcakes, have effectively hijacked this forum and traduced the level of discourse to the gutter. I hope for the US' sake that they are not representative of a groundswell of genuine public opinion - if so your country is in deep trouble.
     
  20. Shivetya macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    #20
    of those friends I have who argue politics I find the most liberal to be the most obnoxious, let alone racist. Though I can get a few of my conservative friends sputtering because my libertarian viewpoint don't work for them well either.

    so, given your obvious to the point of screaming at the top your lungs bias displayed by your original post I can safely say I think the common denominator in your problem is you.
     
  21. Surely Guest

    Surely

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    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    #21
    For your first paragraph, what's your point?

    The most obnoxious (when it comes to politics) and racist people I know are this family of blind sheep-Republicans, who refuse to use their brains, who are on Medicare but do not equate it with government healthcare, who believe all of those BS chain emails they receive, love Fox News and don't understand that much of that channel is opinion, and don't think that Obama is president because he's black. They think they are superior to everyone else because of their religion and ethnicity (which I won't bother specifying, but you wouldn't be happy with the specifics). I just don't talk politics with them, and all is good.

    Your second paragraph is ridiculous and just provides proof of the OP's original concerns. Oh, and I couldn't disagree more.:rolleyes:
     
  22. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #22
    So one side got motivated under an illegal and unsupported war that resulted in the destabilisation of an entire country/region, sent the US into massive debt, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, killed thousands of american men and woman, tortured people, held them illegally, and lost the US any shred of authority it had.

    The other got motivated at a healthcare bill with the aim of providing basic healthcare services to those who are most vulnerable in society.
     
  23. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #23
    To be fair, its a point of view thing.

    On the one hand you had people defending the freedom of the west and bringing a tyrant to justice and on the other you had handouts to people who refuse to work for themselves. Not saying I support this view but that is the general conservative point of view.
     
  24. StruckANerve macrumors 6502

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    #24
    Pretty much.
     
  25. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #25
    Label yourself conservative or liberal and suddenly you're not credible because some other self-describing liberal of conservative did or said things that go against the ideology.
     

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