Another Defeat - War on Drugs Lost

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by OldCorpse, May 4, 2007.

  1. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #1
    Well, anyone who is not comatose, knows that the hypocritical war against (some) drugs will be as successful as Prohibition was. The costs of prosecuting this "war" is staggering not just in monetary terms, but in lost liberties, incarceration rates, massively fuelled crime syndicates, exploding crime rates everywhere, horrific effects on health from unregulated drugs, and political instability in the drug-producing countries.

    What is perhaps less known, is that pathetic as that war is, apparently, it is also being undermined by the war in Iraq. Another "win" for the Bush team. Mission Accomplished!

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...5may05,0,4123403.story?coll=la-home-headlines

    Quote:

    U.S., allies seen as losing drug war
    Figures for last year show that cocaine is cheaper, purer and widely available.
    By Sam Enriquez, Times Staff Writer
    May 5, 2007

    — The United States and its Latin American allies are losing a major battle in the war on drugs, according to indicators that show cocaine prices dipped for most of 2006 and U.S. users were getting more bang for their buck.

    Despite billions of dollars in U.S. antidrug spending and record seizures, statistics recently released by the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy suggest that cocaine is as available as ever.

    Cocaine users and law enforcement officials both care about price and purity. Authorities work to choke off supply, driving up cost and dampening street sales. Users want better coke at cheaper prices.

    In 2005, John P. Walters, the head of the drug policy office, made headlines touting a surge in cocaine prices and falling levels of quality. Those figures indicated that U.S. drug control policies were working, he said.

    But the new numbers issued by his office indicate that any victory was short-lived. Retail cocaine prices last year fell more than 12% from January to October, while average purity of cocaine seized by authorities rose from about 68% to 73%. And this time, the drug policy office did little to publicize the figures, releasing them in a letter to U.S. Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa).


    Quote:

    "Since the Iraq war began more than four years ago, the Pentagon has sharply reduced spending on air and sea surveillance of trafficking routes in the Pacific and Caribbean. The centerpiece of the U.S. strategy against cocaine has shifted to Plan Colombia, which funds aerial fumigation of coca plants. Colombian growers supply 90% of U.S. users through Mexican smuggling rings that control the cocaine and marijuana trade."

    Quote:

    "But critics say that availability of cocaine in most U.S. cities is evidence of failure.

    "In 2005, more coca was grown in Colombia than they had in 2000, when Plan Colombia started," said Adam Isacson, a Colombia analyst for the Center for International Policy, a Washington think tank. "They can say, 'Look how much more coke we'd have without fumigation,' but that sounds pretty lame."
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    This is yet another "war" that will never be won. Guess what? Swarmlord will actually agree with us on this one. ;)
     
  3. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

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    #3
    Others might too! ;)
     
  4. Father Jack macrumors 68020

    Father Jack

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    #4
    Unfortunately the "drug's" war can never be won. :mad:

    FJ
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    By that you mean what?
     
  6. Father Jack macrumors 68020

    Father Jack

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    #6
    I think drugs will need to be legalised as the law is fighting a war that can't be won.
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    Yep- I feel the same way. They should be legalized, but very regulated.
     
  8. OldCorpse thread starter macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #8
    By the way, I wouldn't make this too partisan - the Democrats are guilty as well here in sustaining this sensless war. If we can criticize Bush for not recognizing when to hold and when to fold a bad hand in Iraq, we should be equally hard on the opportunists in the Democratic camp. And it's not a strictly liberal/conservative issue - after all, many conservatives (I think even Bill Buckley) are against this "war" which leads us to nowhere but defeat.

    However, I do blame Bush for escalating this and continuing to distort and demonize the issue instead of honestly facing the problem and looking for honest solutions. I for one do think that many drugs are a social and medical problem - in this I guess I go against some folks. However, I think that you need to address this intelligently. Smoking is a serious health problem that has huge implications - yet, we have managed to bring down the rates of smoking in this country. I'm not saying all was done perfectly (we should have been more respectful and smart about smoker rights too), but it's a start. Tobacco is incredibly addictive. Yet, huge, huge progress was made. Why don't we start a serious and honest conversation about drugs? A serious search for solutions. We have had a good start (not perfect, and there's still a ways to go) on tobacco. Time to do the same with other drugs. It can be done. Unfortunately, Bush has utterly failed here - as in almost everything he's ever touched.
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #9
    Who's being partisan? I've seen no indication of partisanship here.
     
  10. OldCorpse thread starter macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #10
    True. I'm just trying to head off the usual bickering... prevention, you know :)
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #11
    Sure- but this subject seems to have always been, believe it or not, one that we can all agree on.
     
  12. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #12
    The War on Bickering will be no more successful than any of the others.
     
  13. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #13
    Perhaps we can revise the Second Amendment to read:

    A well regulated high being necessary to the sanity of a free State, the right of the people to keep and smoke dope shall not be infringed.
     
  14. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #14
    A lengthy article in the LA Times discussed the tax-dollar costs of the WOD, and the side effects such as the added costs of prisons, and medical costs for those injured in the muggings/robberies for drug money. I concluded that, by and large, the WOD was a lost cause.

    That was in 1973.

    Back in the late 1970s/early 1980s, the street price of cocaine in Austin, Texas, was around $100 per gram. While I haven't bothered to stay current on pricing, SFAIK it's still in the $90 to $100 range. Problem is, these last 25 or so years, a lot of consumer items have doubled or tripled in price. From that I conclude that drugs are easier to come by now, than way back then.

    I think my 1973 conclusion was correct.

    'Rat
     
  15. 66217 Guest

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    #15
    The only problem here seems to be that legalizing drugs would make the drug dealers start fighting back.

    There is A LOT of money in the drug business, they'll make the impossible to stop drugs becoming legal.

    What I mean here is that they would start killing people. In Mexico right now the drug business has started to take control of most of the country, is like they control the government. They don't mind killing to get control.

    It is even killing them (it sounds cruel, but may be the only solution), or legalizing drug world-wide.

    In Italy what they did to control some of the mafia was to go against not only the mafia members, but all of their family. They confiscated all the family money and properties, this way less people where willing to enter the mafia. But what happened? The mafia started killing the government members that where involved in these actions.

    Hope I made my-self clear, I sometimes have problems since my english is not perfect, not yet:D .
     
  16. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #16
    Drug dealers would be out of business if we legalized drugs. There would be nothing to fight against. They would have to find another trade- like dealing guns. Something many in this forum would like to see happen by banning them, because ya know- prohibition works. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Father Jack macrumors 68020

    Father Jack

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    #17
    I totally agree. :)

    FJ
     
  18. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    Thank you father jack. :) The "war on drugs" sucks. Can anyone really imagine what the "war on guns" would be like?
     
  19. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #19
    How much money does the navy, coast guard, army, CIA, air force, DEA, ATF, FBI, justice department, state and local prosecutors, state police, local police, etc, receive from the war on drugs? Billions, probably more than the street value of the drugs. These are the influential people who really do not want to 'end the war'. The war is doing just fine by them.

    To the individual, drug abuse is a personal issue. To our Country, it is a social issue. It is not a military issue. The real losers in this war are the people suffering from drug abuse, and those victimized by drug addicts, who forced into crime because we made them criminals.
     
  20. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #20
    Just as bloody. Not into drugs personally, but we don't seem to be helping any. It starts with honest talk with our kids. Just Say No and pot will kill you don't work. Making things illegal that are less harmful than other legal things (alcohol, cigs, prescriptions, etc) is hypocritical. I don't know how to help the issue, don't think anyone does, but this is not the way.

    Plus, Bush did coke, so I don't see how he's the moral authority here. I mean, he can speak out against it, being experienced in it's repercussions. But the tough talk is meaningless if he got away with it scottfree.
     
  21. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #21
    why would they be out of business ? they would be even more in business.. after all they expansive smuggling falls away, same with paying officials to look away or the difficult distribution
    and with illegal plantations mainly being in low wage countries compared to legal drug plantations and being in a market leading position
    also it would open the doors in politics for more lobbying (like with current legal drugs)
     
  22. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #22
    No, they'd just be best placed to start selling them legally, that's what I think would happen. Also the scientific evidence points to the vast majority of illegal drugs like Ecstasy and Cannabis being relitavely safe compared to legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco.
     
  23. srf4real macrumors 68030

    srf4real

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    #23
    Although it was a noble undertaking, (too many kids like me gettin messed up and blowing away brain cells) the WoD is one of my greatest pet peeves. It has not made any difference in quality of life in the U.S., only criminalized and incarcerated a bunch of good folks who just wanted to have fun. I still despise the pusher-man, looking for innocent lives to make a quick buck on.
    I agree that alcohol and tobacco take the greatest toll on the health of the people. Double standards, etc... I used pot, crack, lsd, x, meth, and shrooms with abandon from the late 80's and through to 1999 and I'm just fine.:D

    *twitch
     
  24. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #24
    I agree especially with the so-called "soft drugs", there is a huge experienced distribution system already in place that Governments would find it very difficult to compete with.
     
  25. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    #25
    It will probably be a long time before drugs are legalized here in the states. There is way too much misinformation out in the public about MDMA, LSD, mushrooms, cannabis and so forth. I would say some of America's biggest problems are meth, alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceuticals.

    We can count of local states and governments for our movement. New Mexico is the latest addition by being the 12th state to legalize medical marijuana. The state will even be growing it and selling it themselves, how bout that :D.

    jon
     

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