Another shooting

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by martint235, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #51
    If only it were that simple.
     
  2. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 601

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #52
    It is that simple, as demonstrated by countries with less guns and less shootings. Combine it with the aggressive paranoid mentality of a lot of Americans and you have an even bigger problem.
     
  3. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #53
    Actually a per capita rate is the great equalizer between population differences. While it is true that more people are killed in Chicago; more murders per capita happen in New Orleans. It suggests that if New Orleans had the same population it would overshadow the number of deaths in Chicago (all other things being equal).

    Well we could start looking at guns per capita, unfortunately a lot of people lie on surveys... on purpose.
     
  4. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #54
    Yes... yes we do.
     
  5. martint235 thread starter macrumors regular

    martint235

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    #55
    Agree.

    UK: man pissed off and angry. Goes down pub and gets more pissed. If he can still stand up , glasses one guy gets chucked in a cell.

    US: man pissed off and angry. Goes to gun cabinet picks up AR. Kills several people turns gun on self.

    Does “more guns more shootings “ really not equate?
     
  6. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #56
    Do you realize how extremely unlikely that scenario is even in the U.S.?
    Sure, it will not happen in the UK, but even here, in a country with well over 300 million firearms in civilian hands, that would be an extremely rare event.
     
  7. martint235 thread starter macrumors regular

    martint235

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    #57
    So how do you explain over 300 mass shootings?
     
  8. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #58
    Brilliant post and beautifully argued.
     
  9. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #59
    You mean those ******** numbers put out by anti-gun groups?
    There haven't been 300 mass shootings since the data started being collected.
    Between 2000 and 2013, there have been 64 incidents that met the standard for a mass shooting.
    This is based in the federally recognized definition as having 4 or more fatalities in a single incident.

    https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository...RAPMQFggdMAA&usg=AOvVaw3OtZUZzLicU1gNBRFKUFE2
     
  10. samiwas Suspended

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    #60
    Are you serious? Like, really...are you actually serious? Do you actually not understand the difference between rate and actual numbers and why we use rate for almost every stat?

    By your logic, the US is so dangerous, it's beyond compare. Using Wikipedia's "List Of Countries By Homicide Death Rate", Honduras has a rate of 66.64, while the US has a rate of 3.6. Honduras' rate is 18.5 times that of the US, yet the US has almost twice the body count. Where would you rather walk around alone?

    Come on....worst argument ever.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 11, 2017 ---
    First of all, your link defines mass killing as three or more, not four.

    But, there's a difference between "mass shooting" and "mass killing/mass murder".
     
  11. martint235 thread starter macrumors regular

    martint235

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    #61
    So for the sake of argument let’s assume the people giving figures up thread are lying, explain your 64 incidents. Are none of these perpetrated by a pissed off guy with easy access to a firearm?
     
  12. MachCrit macrumors regular

    MachCrit

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    #62
    If that were standard behavior in the US, then there would be no one left.

    The US has more violent crime than the UK even absent gun related incidents.

    A small sliver of people are the problem.

    Some gun use results in positive a outcome-

    https://crimeresearch.org/2017/11/ten-defensive-gun-uses-permit-holders-first-10-days-november/
     
  13. ah1488 Suspended

    ah1488

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    #63
  14. martint235 thread starter macrumors regular

    martint235

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    #64
    I wonder how the rest of the world survives.

    It’s not a small sliver of people that are the problem, it’s a small but significant sliver of people with ready access to firearms that are the problem
     
  15. MachCrit macrumors regular

    MachCrit

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    #65
    For perspective- More people were killed in the US by fists and kicks last year than with rifles.

    US won’t go into high murder rate areas and confiscate guns that are already banned in states like IL, CA, etc. Felons cannot legally possess firearms anywhere in the US. There is no intention of doing it nationwide- just talk and laws that won’t affect criminals and nutters from getting guns.

    The government is basically disinterested in doing the hard, dangerous, politically incorrect work to get guns off of the street.
     
  16. martint235 thread starter macrumors regular

    martint235

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    #66
    Does the criteria of 4 dead include the shooter? If so AP reporting another mass shooting in Northern California :(
     
  17. FatherJack1980 macrumors regular

    FatherJack1980

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    #67
    This is too good to not share:

    "Husband and wife accidentally shot in church meeting about gun safety"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/18/husband-wife-accidentally-shot-church-meeting-gun-safety/

    *facepalm* Americans can't be helped
     
  18. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #68
    Idiot violated 3 of 4 gun safety rules.
    • All guns are always loaded.
    • Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    • Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    • Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

    Dropping the magazine does not mean the gun is unloaded.
    On semi autos, you pull the slide back and lock it open. Then you visually inspect to make sure it's empty.
    Never point a gun at anyone, ever, unless you plan on shooting them.
    And what in holy hell possessed him to pull the trigger?
    It's people like this that give us responsible gun owners a bad name.
     
  19. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #69
    Sounds like you are trying to make one of those arguments that unfairly pick on guns. :rolleyes::oops:
     
  20. FatherJack1980 macrumors regular

    FatherJack1980

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    #70
    Here's a British persons perspective on the ludicrous problem that the USA has



    America's love affair with guns would be laughable if it weren't so tragic and if the current situation weren't so grim
     
  21. MachCrit macrumors regular

    MachCrit

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    #71
  22. s2mikey macrumors 68020

    s2mikey

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    #72
    Or, you mean lives ruined by either some whackjob individual or gang violence. Thats the "root cause" of whats going on here. Lets keep that in mind and deal with THAT stuff first. Oh, wait.... thats not as easy as just blaming the guns and banning them. Got it.
     
  23. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 601

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #73
  24. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #74
    Every country has wack jobs and gangs, not every country has such easy access to a wide variety firearms without vetting or training.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 20, 2017 ---
    To be fair Americans have had such a big ego since WWII they don't care what any other country thinks... which is not really something to brag about. Cause when you #$%@ up, you keep #$%@ing up more than just your country.
     
  25. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

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    #75
    If guns did not exist it would only change the headlines. Instead it would be 4 in Philly stabbed, or something similar. The gun is just a tool.
     

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