Anti-Hillary dirty tricks war hots up

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Blue Velvet, Jun 16, 2007.

  1. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Jul 4, 2004
    This is how it's seen from one perspective in the UK. Frankly, I'm appalled at the scraping of the barrel that seems to pass as legitimate political discourse in the US... but regardless, here we go:

    Dick Morris obviously has some grudges to bear. I'm not sure why. Perhaps someone can enlighten me...

    The liberal plot for the future. :D

    What I'd like to see is the Dems coming out swinging hard at a disgraceful and proven record of the incumbents, not defending themselves against smears.,,2104879,00.html
  2. Ugg macrumors 68000


    Apr 7, 2003
    I think even the die hard Clinton haters are going to be somewhat inured to Swift Boat style tactics. What can influence the voter during one election year is often passé the next time around. She's put in a fair amount of time in the Senate and other than voting for the war, her professional record is spotless.

    What they will try to do and maybe succeed at is portraying her as a boring shrew. The women haters in the US make up a great percentage of the voters, women included. The fact that she's a woman is her greatest disadvantage in many voters' eyes.
  3. xsedrinam macrumors 601


    Oct 21, 2004
    Pulitzer Prize winning, Watergate reporter Carl Bernstein's latest and recently released book "A Woman In Charge", is bound to be a best seller, and from what I've read of the reviews, should be insightful as to who Hillary Rodham Clinton is both as a woman and as a politician.
  4. leekohler macrumors G5


    Dec 22, 2004
    Chicago, Illinois
    This woman is as polarizing as Bush. I don't want her anywhere near the presidency. The Democrats will lose and lose big if she gets nominated, believe me. The strange thing is, the fact that she's a woman isn't even the issue. She is disliked for the same reasons Bush is disliked. She's simply a different side of the same coin.
  5. 66217 Guest

    Jan 30, 2006
    I am not from the USA, so I don't know him a lot. But Giuliani seems to be one of the most capable guys out there.

    How do you americans see Giuliani?
  6. leekohler macrumors G5


    Dec 22, 2004
    Chicago, Illinois
    He's a moron, believe me. He's another one who will say just about anything to get elected. He's already flip-flopped on too many issues.
  7. 66217 Guest

    Jan 30, 2006
    I guess I'll need to read about him.

    The only impression I have of him is the one of reducing crime very efficiently in New York.

    BTW, this is the second time I see the expression flip-flopped, but I am not certain I undertand its meaning. What does it means?
  8. leekohler macrumors G5


    Dec 22, 2004
    Chicago, Illinois
    Flip-flopped means that when a politician is seeking office, they'll change their minds on just about any issue to get elected. For instance, before Giuliani decided to run for President, he was pro gay marriage. Now all of a sudden, he's against it. Make sense?
  9. 66217 Guest

    Jan 30, 2006
    Yeah, now I understand what it means. Thanks:) .

    But returning to the main theme, I think that the one thing that makes Hillary an important candidate is the fact that she is a woman. Ugg, why do you say this would play against her?

    Right now the feminist movement is in its best moment, so she would have a lot of votes from women, and seeing that Bush has made a lot of people prefer the Democrats, I think she has a very good chance of winning.
    Personally I wouldn't vote for her.
  10. 0007776 Suspended


    Jul 11, 2006
    while I don't like Giuliani, what is wrong with changing your opinion, it would be better if more of them did, like Bush, or if he changed his mind and got us out of Iraq, would you be mad that he was "Flip-Flopping".
  11. leekohler macrumors G5


    Dec 22, 2004
    Chicago, Illinois
    This is what's wrong with Giuliani:

    While he was going through his divorce, he stayed with a gay couple who stood by him and gave him a place to live. At the time he claimed was for gay marriage. Now he's against it. See a problem there? I do.
  12. EricNau Moderator emeritus


    Apr 27, 2005
    San Francisco, CA
    The BBC sums it up pretty well:

  13. hulugu macrumors 68000


    Aug 13, 2003
    quae tangit perit Trump
    I think there's a difference between changing one's mind because of new information and insight and doing so in order to attain a political advantage.

    The person who changes their mind because of new information isn't 'flip-flopping' but the person who changes their position for an advantage is a liar and cannot be trusted. Guliani is a liar.

    Roco, while Guiliani received good press for lowering the crime rate, he was in reality riding a trend started under the Dinkins administration.
  14. SMM macrumors 65816


    Sep 22, 2006
    Tiger Mountain - WA State

    What you are reading is what campaigning is to the Republican party. They are totally devoted to their one objective, win an election. You see their tactics played out all the time on FOX.

    "Speak LOUDER and FASTER and do not let your advesary make a point. Then you do not have any questions to defend".

    The Democrats have terrible campaign strategists. They show up to a knife fight, thinking it is a debate. Rebublicans do not want to discuss issues. Rebublicans do not want to participate in a forum where they cannot 'stack the deck'. The Democrats walk into the Republican traps, thinking their righteous position will 'win the day'. But, they seldom get to promote their platform without having to defend themselves from half-thuths, and flat-out, neo-conservative lies. Sheer stupidity.

    Alas, this is what campaigning has sunk to in America. It is becoming all about marketing. Certainly, it has been dominated Republican stretegy since Nixon. Historically, the WH staff if primarily made up of lawyers. Not so the Nixon WH. He had large number of advertising people, starting with his Chief of Staff, H.R. Haldeman.

    Reagan became all 'Madison Avenue'. Ron was a former Governor, but he was no politician. He was an actor. So, the best way to campaign him was by marketing. The four most dreaded words for a Reagan staff member were, "Now, off the record...". Since that time, Republican campaigns have centered around smearing your opponent and properly packaging yours. The Democrats want to run on their plstform. Republicans only have two talking points. They sell fear and offer tax breaks.

    The Democrats beter wise up. I do not want to support someone who will not 'stoop to the same low standards' in a campaign. I want someone who WILL!
  15. solvs macrumors 603


    Jun 25, 2002
    LaLaLand, CA
    There are plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike her, but I guess they aren't sexy enough to sell to your average American voter.

    The Dems here don't do that.

    Most of us see him as some kind of hero during 9/11. Despite the fact that he is anything but. A quick Google search pulled up a bunch of stuff about how he put the control office in the WTC, even after being told not to (for obvious reasons), how he short changed the firefighters and police so their equipment didn't work as well as it should have during the attacks (the truth is, most of the NYFD and NYPD hate him), how he told people the air was safe to breathe, even though he knew it wasn't, how he let people's bodies stay in the rubble, some of which has been used to refill potholes... the list goes on. I'm sure we can get you specifics if you want.

    And I'm not even touching the messy divorces, nor how he got rid of some of that crime.
  16. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Feb 14, 2004
    OBJECTIVE reality
    This hate-Hillary campaign is why she cannot win. With any other Democratic candidate, the Republicans would be starting out with a fresh assassination campaign. But with Clinton, they will merely be picking up where they left off, with an already-successful campaign that they can build upon and spread even more.

    You'd have thought issues like Whitewater were dead when they turned out to be a lot of bull____. (The Clintons did not con anybody in the Whitewater deal; they were the marks.) But this is the United States, with one blatantly biased TV network and others that dutifully report every scurrilous allegation, however false.

    The right wing media are, of course, just licking their chops at the chance to do it to Hillary all over again. Ironically, in a presidential election when everything should be going the Democrats' way, the one who is not electable, Hillary, seems well on the way to getting the Democratic primary nod.
  17. zimv20 macrumors 601


    Jul 18, 2002
    brutally and racially, from what my nyc friends tell me.

    even better -- nyc seems to have a decent number of squatters, living in abandoned/condemned buildings and able to get electricity, etc.

    on a xmas eve some years ago, guiliani's task force ejected a bunch of squatters and left them on the street, without food, shelter or their possessions. no link, sorry, this is sourced by friends who live there.

    merry ****ing christmas, mr guiliani.
  18. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Dec 21, 2002
    Yahooville S.C.
    Just have to make 1 coment and thats Dick Morris is on the fox payroll, anyone think he is going to say anything good about Hillary.
  19. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Jul 16, 2002
    This is exactly right IMO. Republicans spent eight years sharping their knives on Billary. Another chance to draw them would be Manna from Heaven for the Right. The irony of course is that at least as many Democrats don't want to see her nominated as do. For this reason if no other, I won't declare her nomination anything like assured. A grassroots revolt within the party is hardly out of the realm of the possible. Obama's rise has been very fast -- his upside potential is unknown. Most people still don't know him yet.
  20. yg17 macrumors G5


    Aug 1, 2004
    St. Louis, MO
    Rudy: "I was mayor of New York during 9/11"
    Republicans: "OMG LETS ELECT GUILIANI!!"
    Some other republican candidate: "He's had 3 wives, is pro-gay and pro-choice"
    Republicans: "We don't want that evil commie liberal as president!!!!"
    Rudy: "But I was mayor of New York during 9/11"
    Republicans: "Lets elect him!!!! Best candidate evar!!111"

    It really reminds me of that Family Guy episode where Lois was running for mayor and just kept saying "9/11" at the debate :D
  21. yojitani macrumors 68000


    Apr 28, 2005
    An octopus's garden
    Dick Morris lives up to his name really. He was one of the brilliant minds behind Fahrenhype 9/11, for example:rolleyes: . I can't remember his story exactly, but he was a strategist behind the first Clinton campaign, but was sacked for some sort of sex scandal. Because he was working for Clinton, the right likes to use him as an 'in-house' liberal.


    ok. he had an affair with a prostitute and resigned. wikipedia link

    Frankly, I agree with Lee. The right has a pathological hatred for Hillary. I don't understand it, really, though it may just be because she's not Bill's arm ornament. She will divide more than unite. And personally, as someone who votes Dem just because there is only one other option, I find Hillary way too conservative.
  22. FFTT macrumors 68030


    Apr 17, 2004
    A Stoned Throw From Ground Zero
    How do I see Guliani ?


    Mafia, corruption, deception, lies, profiteering!
  23. mactastic macrumors 68040


    Apr 24, 2003
    What's funny is how often we hear how liberals just have an irrational hatred for Bush.

    Projection anyone? :D
  24. zimv20 macrumors 601


    Jul 18, 2002
    i'm intrigued by the phrase "hots up", it's the first i've heard it. in the states, we'd say "heats up".

    do brits use "hots up" in other contexts, such as warming food?

    just curious...
  25. xsedrinam macrumors 601


    Oct 21, 2004
    There are those, including her former aids, who think the Hispanic, Independent and Women voters will make enough difference in '08 to tip the scales in her favor not only to take the Dem nomination, but to take it all.

    Would she be addressed as Madam President or Ms. President?

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