Antifa lunatic attacks WA ICE center and is shot dead by police

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by raqball, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. raqball macrumors 68000

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    #1
    Time to treat Antifa as a terrorist group and address them accordingly..

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/washington-man-killed-at-ice-detention-center-manifesto

    *snip*

    Washington ICE detention center attacker Willem Van Spronsen wrote 'I am Antifa' manifesto before assault

    The 69-year-old armed man killed by Washington state police as he attacked a local Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention center Saturday sent a manifesto to friends the day before the assault in which he wrote "I am Antifa," and was being lionized by members of the leftwing group as a "martyr."

    The group Seattle Antifascist Action described assailant Willem Van Spronsen a "good friend and comrade" who "took a stand against the fascist detention center in Tacoma" and "became a martyr who gave his life to the struggle against fascism."
     
  2. Solver macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    “He’s being treated as a hero in Antifa and anti-ICE circles.”

    Beth Foster said,
    “As far we know, Willem Van Spronsen is the first American killed attempting to liberate an American gestapo camp. There was a time when thousands of Americans, armed with the guns, attacked and liberated concentration camps ... they were heralded as...“

    “Shaun King called for the “concentration camps” to be liberated “by any means necessary” — are we now going to have a national conversation about how leftist rhetoric contributed to violence?”

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/...nter-identified-as-anarchist-and-antifascist/
     
  3. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    #3
    At least they are making a pro 2A argument.
     
  4. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #4
    I sure hope more attempt to liberate the camps. The less of them the better.
     
  5. raqball thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #5
    The dude was a grade A wackadoodle, no doubt...

    Time to add this group as a terror organization and shut em down...
     
  6. hulugu, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019

    hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #6
    I've got big problems with Antifa, but labeling the group as a terror organization is a terrible idea. The group, actually a defuse set of smaller anarchist groups that operate under one banner, has committed only a few violent acts and most of those were low-level episodes of thuggish violence. If we're going to make that grounds for terror, well everyone from the KKK to the Hell Angels is now a domestic terrorist organization, and that will make the term meaningless.

    More importantly, in terms of shear resources, siccing the FBI on a bunch of wayward anarchists means taking agents away from tracking Homegrown Violent Extremists.

    As NPR noted in May: "The FBI is investigating some 850 cases of domestic terrorism and considers it serious and persistent threat, the FBI's Michael McGarrity told the House Committee on Homeland Security on Wednesday."

    As the article goes on, it notes that in 2018, "extremists carried out six lethal attacks that killed 17 people in this country. The year before, there were five lethal attacks that killed eight people."

    None of those acts were committed by Antifa members.

    To drive this point further, the Anti-Defamation League's Center on Extremism analyzed incidents in 2018 and found that "domestic extremists killed at least 50 people in the U.S., a sharp increase from the 37 extremist-related murders documented in 2017, though still lower than the totals for 2015 (70) and 2016 (72). The 50 deaths make 2018 the fourth-deadliest year on record for domestic extremist-related killings since 1970."

    Of all murders in 2018 committed by violent extremists, 78 percent were by white supremacists, 16 percent by anti-government extremists, 4 percent by "Incel extremism" and 2 percent by "Domestic Islamic Extremism."

    From 2008 to 2018, out of the 427 deaths, right-wing extremists killed 73.3 percent of people. Meanwhile, left-wing groups, including anarchist and black nationalists were responsible for 3.2 percent of killings. Islamic extremists killed 23.4 percent of people.

    Arguably, if we're going to put resources toward targeting ideological groups, nailing down all these so-called patriot groups would save a lot of people.

    But, Antifa seems to freak the right-wing out in a way totally divorced from the group's goals and objectives, while ignoring how Neo-Nazis regularly beat people in these fights too.
     
  7. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #7
    So you will allow law enforcement to confiscate firearms based on verbal threats from those who did not attack anyone?
     
  8. Solver macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    Was the KKK labeled a terror organization? If so, I agree that would be fair.
     
  9. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #9
    Fair?

    The KKK literally blew up churches with children in them, and was responsible for more than a century of bloodshed, including lynchings and shootings. The organization now is a faint echo from itself, but to compare Antifa—mostly anarchist kids dressing up in black and acting like street thugs at worst—to the KKK so equivocally is a vast disservice to memory.

    Now, Antifa activists might change my mind through orgy of violence tomorrow, but right now, we have white supremacist groups and Anti-fascists hitting each other—they're street gangs at worst.
     
  10. bambooshots, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019

    bambooshots macrumors 65816

    bambooshots

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    #10
    This was a politically motivated act of violence.

    Kinda the definition of “terrorism” right there.
     
  11. Huntn macrumors demi-god

    Huntn

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    #11
    Just curious, is the KKK already on your list?
     
  12. bambooshots macrumors 65816

    bambooshots

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    #12
    I’m not sure where you got that idea from his comment.

    Is that what you are suggesting?

    Have you read the lunatic’s manifesto?

    He openly calls for ignoring firearms laws. What’s the purpose for more firearm laws when people like him (ie, criminals) will just ignore them?

    At any rate, if he was a communist at heart, he’s a good communist now.
     
  13. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #13
    Not only did you ignore almost my entire post, but you've submitted such a loose definition of terrorism that it makes the term meaningless.

    Again, if you want to make this an act of terrorism, then you might want to consider how the Charleston protestors yelling "Jews will replace us" might all deserve a free trip to Cuba under some future regime that doesn't mind using the FBI, or worse JSOC, against domestic terrorists.

    And, let's consider how for instance, the Bundy family helped lead a group of people, who aimed rifles at U.S. federal agents, and certainly engaged in intimidation to protect a criminal's assets. Can we ship them to black sites and interrogate them? Why not. They're terrorists.

    A foolish need to "shut down" Antifa will give room for the domestic/foreign intelligence apparatus to go after other Americans—and fortunately, cooler heads in the IC have kept this from happening, but don't kid yourselves, any agency that can round up Antifa members can be used to round up anyone.

    Our anti-terrorism is a dangerous, complex weapon and it's not for street thugs, or some idiot armed with a couple of Molotovs.
     
  14. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #14
    Thus the need for LE to confiscate any FA he had.

    Is it so hard to understand?
     
  15. Glockworkorange macrumors 68000

    Glockworkorange

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    #15
    I believe the KKK was labeled a terrorist organization. If it's violence and intimidation for political purposes...seems like a terrorist to me.

    I mean, arguing "which side" is more "hateful" is not really the point here, but go ahead and roll with it.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 15, 2019 ---
    They should be.

    I just don't understand the rush by the lefties to come out to defend Antifa.

    What is wrong with you people?

    How about, "yeah that's really messed up. Completely awful."

    Instead we get "but...but....Nazis and KKK!!! What about them??"

    Jesus, people. Get. A. Grip. I mean, unless you're claiming them and really need to defend them.
     
  16. Solver macrumors 6502a

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    #16
  17. ThisBougieLife, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019

    ThisBougieLife macrumors 68000

    ThisBougieLife

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    #17
    Thinking it's awful is not the same as agreeing that they should all be labeled "terrorists".
     
  18. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #18
    How many acts before they deserve the terrorist tag? 2 more? 3?
     
  19. bambooshots macrumors 65816

    bambooshots

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    #19
    So what you're try to say is: red flag laws.

    Why beat around the bush? Just come ot and say it: you support red flag laws.
     
  20. Glockworkorange macrumors 68000

    Glockworkorange

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    #20
    Fair enough, but did you even take a moment to unequivocally condemn the behavior?

    Nah...
     
  21. bambooshots macrumors 65816

    bambooshots

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    #21
    image.jpeg

    It appears that antifa is turning into a paramilitary organization.

    But of course, you won't hear that from the media. Leftist paramilitary = good, right paramilitary = bad.
     
  22. JayMysterio macrumors 6502a

    JayMysterio

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    #22
    Is that a new forum rule? People are expected to placate others by stating the obvious?

    I'm thinking a few more than it would take the KKK or any other group that has killed civilians or shot at federal officers.
     
  23. Glockworkorange macrumors 68000

    Glockworkorange

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    #23
    Some less equivalency would be nice, but you're welcome to continue apologizing for them. I'll make you a Number One Fan foam finger.

    Doesn't it get tiring waking up every day h8ing the United States? Must be exhausting.
     
  24. JayMysterio macrumors 6502a

    JayMysterio

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    #24
    Once again, you demand people say what you want, but then turn around tell them what they are saying.

    Just quote ME condoning what Antifa has done.

    Pushing back against the selective use of the terrorist label against groups you don't care for, isn't apologizing. It's recognizing that if such abuse is done now, it can be done in the future. With this administration & your obvious cheerleading the label of terrorist will NOT be applied properly, but those you don't care for. First it will be Antifa, then it will be BLM, but it won't be the KKK, it won't be the likes of a Bundy. Despite the fact that it is the last two have either killed or taken up arms against federal officials multiple times.

    I know you don't want to believe that the terrorist term is selectively applied, but it's a pattern with this administration.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...o-rally-fbi-kkk-domestic-terrorism-california
    Mind you, the FBI didn't investigate this group because they stabbed someone. No, the FBI embarked on an investigation because a member was stabbed at a white supremacist rally. Did they investigate the white supremacists?

    The terrorism title as you want used, would be used more for political purposes, all the while ignoring groups with a proven history of decades of terrorist activity.

    And please, not the tired "I h8" whatever bit... :rolleyes:, it's pathetically cheap & pandering, but sadly not surprising.

    I should not have to use that quote so often on PRSI as of late. :(
     
  25. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #25
    Act of “violence” is a huge stretch. Violence typically involves attempting to injure or kill other people. Who were the targets of this guy's attack?
     

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101 July 15, 2019