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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Nov 7, 2005.
I was going to post this story. One hates to think the IRS is being used to go after left-leaning church congregations, but then this other story just happened to run on the same page of the Times.
All of which leads me to wonder whether any of these conservative churches are being pursued by the IRS for engaging in political advocacy.
I love being an Episcopalian!!! Fr Bacon is originally from the Diocese of Mississippi. I have found our clergy and many of our parishioners to be leaning left socially, which should be expected. I'm continually amazed at my own liberal self having grown up in 'good ol' boy land'.
I wonder if I should be afraid of an audit now that I have posted my confessions of liberalism?
you think there's hypocrisy? this administration? never!
Well, I agree with the underlying issue - campaign contributions are not tax deductible, but charitable contributions are, so the IRS (and the FEC) gets nervous when charitable organizations start trying to influence elections. But it does seem to be being enforced selectively, and I'm not exactly sure what the answer should be anyway - there is a freedom of speech principle here.
i think the answer is simple: keep politics out of church and the IRS.
here is a bipartisan suggestion:
remove tax-exemption status from ALL religious organizations.
no exceptions whatsoever.
Then guess what? Theocracy here we come! I personally don't want them entering government.
I don't think its right to tell people in a church that they can talk about God and morality and ethics but not about politics. Also, churches historically have been on the right side of many social issues. There's got to be a better solution. Maybe just ban political ads and contributions from religious organizations.
Seriously, I am wondering. The article suggests that the IRS sends out quite a few of these letters every year. I wonder how they decide who gets them?
Not one who believes in the conspiracy theories (not a conspiracy if it's all out there in the open), but this is a head scratcher. I wonder if that Church that was telling it's people to vote for Bush got the same letter. Somehow I doubt it. And last I checked, Jesus was a peaceful kinda guy.
The irony being that the local place to vote in my district was a Church.
There is no real good solution. Churchies should be able to bloviate on the issues, same as the rest of us. Where I get pissed is when churches turn over their rosters to a political party, or engage in organized coordination with a party. I'd also like to see a little humility from some of these guys who are so sure God hates John Kerry because Kerry doesn't hate gays and abortion enough, and so sure God supports Bush despite his warmongering, lying, and eagerness to execute.
What I'd like to see I guess is a rise in liberal churches to take on the conservative ones. Since I'm not religious I'm not in any position to tell them what to do however. I hear Markos (of The Daily Kos) is teaming up with a pastor to start a liberal religious discussion website. I haven't seen the results yet though.
*Ahem, ahem!* "Justice Sunday??" How many right-wing churches participated in that? How many of them got letters from the IRS? I'd be willing to bet zero.
I'm trying to imagine how that would work. Would the forum members all just tell each other how stupid they are for believing in God?
Come on Lyle, you're better than that. Or did you forget the smiley?
Follow-up article in today's Times:
I've been saying that for a while.
Would you like a cookie?
The real question is, how do you achieve it?
The conservatives in the Episcopal Church believe the liberals have been subversively 'taking over' (or whatever) for 30 years. Accusations are flying across the board. A Google search will find you plenty of blogs and other informative news events. Conservatives are losing their grip due to the fact that the common man can actually reason beyond what the conservative agenda has promoted for 50 years (or more).
I don't know. I've talked to Christian friends of mine about it. They just dismiss the fundies as wackos and don't see any reason to do anything. I've tried to tell them that those wackos are maligning their religion, but I don't get much of a response.
I am sure any adminstration can influence the IRS to audit anyone of their desire. I think the term is "Political Audit", but I could be wrong.
Didn't you know, liberals hate religion. Jesus, perhaps the most liberal person of all time, was very much against the corrupt church leaders of his day. It was those darn Deists who wanted to separate Church and State. Silly dreamers. Everyone knows it's the same thing.
I sure hope that's not what Lyle was implying. Just because the left tends to worship privately, instead of wrapping themselves in God and bashing dissenters with the Bible doesn't mean there are not good people of faith on the left. I'm not one of them, but I know plenty of lefty God-lovers.
It's much more complicated than that. For every Martin Luther King there's a Jerry Falwell. For every abolitionist, there's a temperance nut. Right now we don't see too many religious social progressives, except perhaps Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton, but for most of history they've been out there and leading the crusade, while some other religious nut is trying to pull them back in. And it's not just in this country, think Gandhi family vs the Moslems/Sikhs. I think they should all be allowed their say, but I know who's side I'm on.