Any good person here experienced from buying from a car dealership?

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by jc0481, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. jc0481 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    #1
    Well I went to a car dealership today with my father. Who will be a co-signer for the car loan for me. He knows I am on top of my finances. He will never do this for me if I was a slacker. Anyways I have attached the image of the finance paper the car salesman gave us. The total price came out to be $11,994.84 out the door. Their sales tax and doc fees are astronomical. I talked to the DMV of the state of Utah. They told me I can get the car registered cheaper if it was done by me instead of the car dealership. I hope that's true. They also said if I have the car registered by me I can avoid paying the dealer doc. fee. Which right now is $289.85

    I mentioned this to the car salesman. He seemed agitated when I told him this by the way. He said "Every car dealership in Utah charges everyone the doc. fee. There's no going around that." Also he said "We can't give you the 7 year or 100,000 mile warranty on that car." (From which I remember him telling me and my father earlier that day that's it not from the dealership but from Toyota.) So it has 20,000 miles left to go for the warranty. He told us it will just be "As is".

    Now the sheet I provided is the sheet he gave us. I told him to break down the "other fees" and he wrote down the paper. I will list them below in case its not readable.

    -Temp license plate tag
    -Licensing
    -Property tax
    -Licensing corridor (tax for highways around Utah)
    -Tire Tax (A fee that the state charges every dealership) The state automatically assumes that every car dealership will have 5 brand new tired on the car. This is what he told us.

    Total = $205.00

    He did not run our credit score but we gave him an estimate of our scores. He wrote down the interest rates and with $2,000 circled what we would be paying monthly the car loan. I just have a feeling that this is a fishy deal and hopefully someone can set it straight. I don't have any friends that are car salesman although I wish I did right now. Can also someone tell me if I am being ripped off or not? I just want to learn if all of these fees are necessary?? I hope someone can help out. Thank you.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    #2
    most of the "other fees" he listed seem legit but I would ask for a break down of how much each one is.. Mind you based on what you told me and that piece of paper the guy is a slime ball and the dealer is acting that way.

    The dealer doc part fee I would take say no to paying it and draw a line though it on the contract and subtract the amount. Threaten to walk out on it if they do not remove it and make good on it.

    They are pushing you to get a 72 month (6 year) loan on that car. They are trying to rip you off on the interested rates and a 6 YEAR LOAN. that part is the insane part. 60 month loan max for any car and since it is used I would go for a 4 year lone max.
     
  3. Big-TDI-Guy macrumors 68030

    Big-TDI-Guy

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    #3
    I agree, long loans on used cars can be a bad idea - I'd try to shorten it if you're capable of making the payments.

    Also - try to get a little more $ off the car. There is ALWAYS room in their price. Haggle. And remember - YOU aren't the one who has to buy this car within a window of time - it's on their hands. So don't be afraid to walk away at any point. (I find making them wait always works in your favor)

    My last car (which was used @ a dealership) they had 22k listed on it. I poked around and test drove it - they wouldn't drop below 20k. I waited a week, and it was still there, so i asked again, they would "give it" to me for 18,500. Once again, I declined.

    I saw it still there 2 weeks later so I figured I'd call them and ask - sales rep sounded a bit irritated at me when I brought it up - she barked "make an offer" I said 12,500, she said she'd think about it. 15 minutes later phone rings, and she said to come pick it up. :D

    That's the best feeling - when you get to be the jerk for a change. :)

    Time is on your side, and it's up to them to make the sale - not you.
     
  4. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #4
    If you are getting a loan, the dealer doc fee includes some of the costs associated with making the loan (the paperwork end of it, next day air to the banks and such) and paying somebody to run the paperwork to the DMV.

    If you are paying cash, the costs associated with the paperwork drop a bit to the running everything around last minute (which seems to happen all the time.)

    ---

    Though if you look at some of the vehicle title companies most of their paperwork charges are under $50, though I don't know if they'd ding you twice for doing more than 1 item at a time.
     
  5. ErikCLDR macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2007
    #5
    You can always negotiate. Your strongest tool is being able to walk out. Lets face it, not a lot of cars are being sold right now. The dealer should be pretty inclined to sell. Is this a real dealership or just a used car dealer.

    I agree. I don't think you want to be paying a SIX YEAR loan on a car that has 80,000 miles that is already probably really 3.5 years old.

    If you don't feel comfortable, don't do business with them. There are plenty of cars out there for sale. I know my parents refused to buy new and used cars from "real" dealers if they sense they are being at ripped off or they don't like the way they do business.
     
  6. jc0481 thread starter macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    #6
    Thank you for the advice. Has anybody here been a car salesman before or currently is one? This is one of the major car dealerships around town. They have a brand new building across the street and the one I went to is the Used Car Dealership on the other side of the street.

    I just wonder if it is indeed cheaper doing the registration myself. I just want some hard facts in order to negotiate a good deal. I will walk out if they don't go my way.

    I really hated the fact what he said about the warranty. He is totally contradicting what he said earlier that day. It also agitated me when he said he is not sure when if the car will still be available in the next few days. He asked me and my father if there was a way that we can come up with $2,000 dollars and pay that amount today or tomorrow to have "reserved" for us. I did not like that. I might as well go with a private seller.
     
  7. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #7
    The dealers are hurting right now, if you cancel the deal and tell them you'll come back when you have the money if they are being asses -- they might knock some more off.

    Though at some dealers, used high MPG cars are where they are screwing people right now.

    ---

    Don't worry if you miss out on this one, there are millions of used cars out there.
     
  8. mikeyredk macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    #8
    If you are intrested in reading there is a good article over at edmunds about a journalist who goes under cover as a car salesmen.

    link
     
  9. taylorwilsdon macrumors 68000

    taylorwilsdon

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Location:
    Bay Area
    #9
    The fees aren't too bad, but I would be scared of buying a 2 year old car with 80k on the clock. Sounds like its had the **** driven out of it - make sure to get a PPI (even though its cpo or has warranty balance) and bargain based on what you find there.
     
  10. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #10
    Looking at their used car inventory...

    I'd take the 2006 Mazda 3 for the same price, has half the miles.

    Even the 2007 Kia Spetra with half the mileage and 2k less might work just as well.

    Though the 2002 Ford Taurus for half the price, might be a worthwhile shot.

    Though the 2005 Buick Lacrosse CX or Lesabre on the lot would knock a bit off the insurance cost. And likely be a nice car for quite awhile.
     
  11. Beric macrumors 68020

    Beric

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Location:
    Bay Area
    #11
    This.

    40,000 miles a year is very high. I would be very cautious.
     
  12. SwiftLives macrumors 65816

    SwiftLives

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2001
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    #13
    I wholeheartedly second that link. While it may look like a fairly low-rent website, it's is filled with some very useful information.
     
  13. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    #14
    First rule when dealing with car dealers. Be willing to walk away. Second rule, see first rule.

    It's not worth the hassle registering it yourself to save a few bucks, IMO.
     
  14. shfreelance macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Location:
    Eustis, FL
    #15
    Everyone here offered some good advice. I would really look at the Mazda, also possibly into new cars. Right now, they are almost giving them away. Mainly the big 3, hugely the trucks and SUV's.
     
  15. tdevers macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2008
    #16
    My thoughts exactly. I bought a four year old Ford Explorer with 39k a few years ago for a good price. Still going strong at 94k! The deals are out there, you just have to find them. Walk away from this one.
     
  16. descartes macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    #17
    now is probably one of the best times to buy a car. you are literally and figuratively in the driver's seat. be ready to offer your terms and stick to them. eventually, you will find someone to take care of you.
     
  17. descartes macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    #18
    oh yeah, and 40K miles a year is extremely high. even for a toyota.
     
  18. abijnk macrumors 68040

    abijnk

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    #19
    Another great place for car buying tips is Bankrate.com

    Also, doc fees are ALWAYS negotiable. Any dealer who tells you other wise is just dicking with you (as you should expect since they are, after all, car dealers).

    As for the miles on the car, that is pretty high for a (possibly) 3 year old car (remember, 2009s are on the lot right now, car cycles are 6 months to a year ahead of calendar cycles). However, this is easily explained by whatever the car was used for and doesn't necessarily indicate that the car is in poor condition.

    I would recommend taking the VIN# and getting a Car Fax report.
     
  19. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    #20
    An excellent idea but please be aware that many states and cities do NOT share information with Carfax. Their reports are far from complete vehicle histories.
     
  20. mperkins37 macrumors 6502a

    mperkins37

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    #21
    Dude, I just went to Autotrader.com & searched that make & model with a 200 mile radius & found 10-15 with less than 50k on them.
    Find a private seller that needs to sell & you could do even better.
    Take a pass on this one & Hunt for the right one.
    Also, no sales tax & the warranty can be transferred if it's bought off a third party instead of a dealer.
     
  21. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    #22
    Also not worth picking up the Toyota Certified vehicle, and paying that extra premium for the car at 80k miles just because they have the Toyota certified warranty tacked on it.

    Much better to get a used vehicle with half the miles and no warranty and save 2+ thousand.

    Just look at Consumer Reports and see where the used cars fall with reliability.

    If the car is just about as reliable as the certified car, has half the miles, and half the price ... it might not be a bad deal. Especially if the Toyota warranty would expire in 20k miles anyhow.

    Anyhow, I hope they tossed in a hubcap.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Location:
    Palookaville
    #23
    Well I'm a bad person, but I agree with the advice of others that $12,000 for this car with 80,000 miles on the odometer is a bad deal.
     

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