anybody care to justify America's death penalty?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by NewGenAdam, Jul 19, 2011.

?

I believe

  1. some crimes should be punished with death in a developed country

    35 vote(s)
    50.7%
  2. no crime justifies the death penalty in a developed country

    34 vote(s)
    49.3%
  1. NewGenAdam macrumors 6502

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    #1
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14199078

    or Japan's for that matter. Or the use of capital punishment in any country capable of imprisoning offenders for life.

    It seems to me an immoral, barbaric, inexcusable crime against humanity which, without the excuse of protecting society, simply cannot be justified.

    Tell me I'm wrong.
     
  2. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #2
    Anybody care to do a little research and see if there is already a thread (or twenty) on this topic?
     
  3. NewGenAdam thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #3
    how kind of you to do the honours.

    Since you prefer to discuss threads rather than what they contain: how long must pass before a topic can be reopened, or must anything vaguely related to what has ever been discussed before be placed in a previous thread?
     
  4. appleguy123 macrumors 603

    appleguy123

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    #4
    I don't necessarily support the use of the death penalty, but I see the reasoning behind it.

    People who do crimes that warrant the death penalty are probably mentally unsound, and absolutely incapable of being reintroduced into society. It's like how we put down rabid dogs, not because we want them dead bit because we now that they still have a capacity for hurting people. I would argue that imprisoning them for life if a far more heinous injustice.
     
  5. jagolden macrumors 6502

    jagolden

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    #5
    Sure, I'll bite, but only once.

    Protecting society is not an excuse, it's a reason, and a good one.

    Justify? They won't be a repeat offender and we won't waste our tax dollars on them.

    As to deciding who's guilty to the extent you would execute, I don't have that answer. It's a different question. But there are plenty of cases where there is no doubt whatsoever of murder and killing.
     
  6. RafaelT macrumors 65816

    RafaelT

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    #6
    You are wrong.

    The only problem with the death penalty is that it takes forever to get the execution done and by the time all the legal work is done it costs more then it would vs life in prison.

    We as a society coddle people, and it gets worse and worse every year. Political correctness is getting to an awful extreme point. People need to toughen up a little bit and stop finding things to be offended about. Luckily there are still some places left that have not totally given in to this movement.

    Why don't explain this to me, why should someone who goes out and stabs 20 people to death be allowed to live? Why are we sticking him in jail for life? He is a waste of space and can not be a productive member of society do to his little stabbing problem.

    I will be more then happy to get into a long discussion about this and I will respond to any replies, unfortunately for now I need to get back to work.
     
  7. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #7
    I'm not sure why people think the death penalty is the ultimate punishment. Personally, if I knew I was guilty of what I was convicted of and had no hope of getting out, I'd want the death penalty. I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life in prison. The death penalty is the easy way out for criminals.
     
  8. NewGenAdam thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #8
    Well I think it become difficult when we talk about 'crimes of passion'... When one person kills another without intending to, without wanting to, because they can't control themselves. They didn't make a choice. They aren't evil. They don't deserve death.

    But I agree that calculated murder is a different question and one which should be dealt with far more seriously. Choosing to kill somebody for whatever reason, be it hatred, anger, money, is wholly unacceptable.

    And I'm sure you'd agree. Which is where I get confused. Because a few people seem to be saying the death penalty is good because "we won't waste our tax dollars on them".

    That sounds to me like a society choosing to kill somebody for money...
     
  9. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #9
    I guess it would boil down to what would you feel if someone murdered someone you love. Would you want them to be put away in a jail getting 3 square meals a day on your dime or would you want them to pay for their crime with their own life? And I am talking cold blooded, first degree murder...

    There are certain crimes that dictate certain punishments.
     
  10. jagolden macrumors 6502

    jagolden

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    #10
    As the comedian Ron White says (more or less) "Most States are getting rid of the death penalty. In Texas, they're putting in an express lane!"

    No coddling there.
     
  11. appleguy123 macrumors 603

    appleguy123

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    #11
    You need to have premeditated the murder (1st degree murder) to get the death penalty afaik.
     
  12. Simgar988 macrumors 65816

    Simgar988

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    #12
    A single execution of an innocent person makes it a failed and horrendous system.

    And that's just one point.
     
  13. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #13

    Well, if money is an issue, it costs more to execute someone than to give them life, so I'd rather pay for their meals.
     
  14. NewGenAdam thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #14
    Well yes but this is life. Isn't it slightly dangerous to assume everybody values it as little as you do? Maybe some people would rather not die. If we think life in prison is worse than death, I say we should stay safe and give offenders the choice.

    I wonder how that would go.
     
  15. likemyorbs, Jul 19, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011

    likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #15
    The whole system needs an overhaul. Prison should be used to rehabilitate, the death penalty should be used for those who cannot be rehabilitated. I fully support capital punishment, i only wish it were done quicker because as it is now it's very costly. With today's dna technology, there is no reason to postpone it.

    Agreed. Just like the accidental death of a civilian makes a whole war failed and horrendous. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #16
    With respect, I disagree.

    Quite apart from the moral arguments (and I do not believe that a state should arrogate the right of life and death to itself), there are also practical considerations. This is not a penalty which is applied fairly. The poor, uneducated or less educated, and in certain societies, certain groups which differ or are defined as different on the grounds of religion, ethnicity, racial designation, and so on, from the more powerful, tend to have the death penalty applied disproportionately to them.

    On a matter wholly unrelated to this, but, instead related to a somewhat different thread, I have to say I really like your new, dashing, 'tar.

    Cheers
     
  17. jagolden macrumors 6502

    jagolden

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    #17
    You completely took that out of context. Please actually read the statement I made "They won't be a repeat offender and we won't waste our tax dollars on them".

    So, If their guilt is not in question, we can kill two birds with one stone (no pun intended), we protect society and save money. But only in unquestionable cases.
     
  18. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #18
    This is an interesting statement. Would like to see evidence on this claim.. And the meals are just one cost of keeping a person in prison. How about the electricity for running the kitchen that feeds them, water to bath them, laundry services, the officers salaries so on and so on. times all that by how long they are there, suppose they commit this crime at 18 and then are only sentenced to life. So again, would like to see your data please....
     
  19. NewGenAdam thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #19
    So we should kill people because it saves us money? In that case why not abolish this whole mess of law, courts, trials, and stone anybody who would incur us a cost?

    Secondly, who gets to decide who lives and who dies? Seems that we should give that role to some trustworthy people...

    Finally, today's science implies truth where it's not there. DNA technology, like all science, gives results as a good guess. I believe 95% probability of being correct is enough which means that if we killed people by that then for every 19 murderers we kill, we'd kill one innocent person.
     
  20. stonyc macrumors 65816

    stonyc

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    #20
    http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42
     
  21. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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  22. nebo1ss macrumors 68030

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    #22
    America has not caught up with the rest of the world yet in outlawing the death penalty. There are many examples, where those convicted of capital crimes in countries where the death penalty does not exist and even in the US in states that do not have the death penalty ,have subsequently been found to be innocent.

    The death penalty is barbaric and outdated and the rest of the world has moved on from those times.
     
  23. NewGenAdam thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #23
    <3

    So the death penalty costs 10 times more than life in prison... Why is it still in use???

    Here's why:

    How would you feel if somebody legally slept with your wife and with your children? Is it possible you or anybody in that situation would want to kill them for ruining your life?

    It's ridiculous to use feelings as the basis for fairness: particularly the very biased feelings of the victims...

    The death penalty makes some people feel like justice has been dealt, and fairness has been restored.

    But is it really justice?
     
  24. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #24
    I have always been intrigued by this argument, so I'll ask:

    If an innocent person is sentenced to life in prison - which many death penalty opponents say is a fate far worse than the death penalty - and that person in fact serves life in prison until a natural death, is that also a "failed and horrendous system?"
     
  25. jagolden macrumors 6502

    jagolden

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    #25
    So what's your solution, just lock 'em up forever?
     

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