Anybody here in line for a $35K Tesla 3?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by kobalap, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. kobalap macrumors 6502

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    #1
    I read quite a few articles about how very few if any model 3s will be of the $35k variety given that they are "stripped" down models. However, I suspect that if you compared the model 3 vs. a 3 series BMW or an Audi A4 or a Merc C300, you get far more for your money than with the Tesla.

    Thoughts?

    https://www.yahoo.com/tech/apos-true-cost-buying-tesla-233304642.html
     
  2. TheHateMachine macrumors 6502a

    TheHateMachine

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    #2
    I put down a reservation when it was first announced. I cancelled it because I ended up getting a new truck a few months ago and don't need a new car at the moment. I might change my mind when the backlog gets cleared up mid 2018. Having an EV commuter would be nice, my hospital has charging spaces for Tesla and other EV owners. I'd probably just get the base model without anything fancy.
     
  3. darksithpro macrumors regular

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    Oct 27, 2016
    #3
    IMO the range, charging time and the availability of charging stations in the city will be a factor.

    "The base price Model 3 sells for $35,000 and comes with a standard battery that provides about 220 miles of driving per charge. The car itself can hit 0 to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds, which technically isn't as fast as the 2.8 seconds it takes the Tesla Model S in "Ludicrous Mode," but should be plenty of power for most drivers."


    220 miles isn't too bad. You figure most 4 cyl economy cars are in the 350-400 mile range. 35k is a decent price, it's only about 5k more than a brand new mid size sedan.
     
  4. kobalap thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #4
    Isn't even the base model fancy in comparison to what else is in the market?
     
  5. IronWaffle, Aug 3, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017

    IronWaffle macrumors 6502

    IronWaffle

    #5
    I'm on the list. Stood in line on Day One. I don't have a lot of thoughts to share at the moment since decision-worthy info is still slight -- I assume because of NDAs. At this point I'm weighing options. I test drove the BMW shortly before its release a few years ago. Great ride in my opinion. I've logged time in the Model S, but only as a passenger. Planning on doing a test drive in the next few weeks. I've also been to one of their stores several times and spent a lot of time asking questions there. I've looked into and sat in a Chevy Bolt (comparable feel to Prius, IMO) but haven't driven one yet.

    There's plenty to read over at Tesla Motor Club forums.

    That said, here is the current status of my reservation. It's pretty basic, but may be of interest. Others with reservations might have interesting contrasting options.

    1. “First Production” delivered 11/2017-1/18 (310 mile range, rear wheel w/upgrades) for $49k,
    2. “Standard Battery” delivered 1/18-3/18 (220 mile, rear wheel) for $35k, or
    3. “Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive” delivered 7/18-9/18 (220 or 310 mile [no features listed]) for [no price listed].
     
  6. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #6
    I don't have the need for a car right now. As soon as I do, yes.

    Also of note, at the moment you cannot but the 35K version just yet, only the longer range, slightly more premium version. The actual 35K model will come later this year, followed by the performance version.
     
  7. darksithpro macrumors regular

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    Oct 27, 2016
    #7
    How did Tesla manage to get so many miles out of the battery? One thing to consider is resale value. Not sure about Tesla specifically, but cars like the Nissan Leaf have an absolutely horrible resale value.
     
  8. TheHateMachine macrumors 6502a

    TheHateMachine

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    #8
    Yea, i'd consider it fancy when compared to other cars at that price range. Shame I will probably miss out on the full federal EV credit because by the time I buy one Tesla is more than likely going to be over 200k EVs sold and the credit will begin phasing out.
     
  9. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    #9
    I'm not a big fan of the Model 3, especially considering how the $35,000 Tesla isn't really a $35,000 Tesla. I don't find the design that great and parts of the interior look horrid. Maybe govt incentives will help bring the cost down.

    Once you add in options you can quickly find yourself at $50,000 to well over 60,000. Want the bigger battery- $9,000. AWD- $5000. "Luxury" package- $5,000. Autopilot $5000-8000 depending on level of sophistication.

    I doubt many people will go for the base model. It also makes sense for Tesla not to build them as they will get far more profit on the higher spec trims. This is fairy common in the luxury market- offer a cheap base model but not really make them. For the cost of a loaded model 3, it's almost worth getting a model S.

    Let's call the average selling price $50,000. You can buy a much nicer car for that price, albeit not a full electric drivetrain. But as is full EV's are not exactly the most practical option overall if you ever consider on planning on taking a long trip.

    Personally a hybrid sounds far more practical, and significantly cheaper, while still being eco-conscious.
     
  10. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    May 13, 2016
    #10
    Tesla prices seem to match Apple's logic. Make a really appealing price on the low end model but with a little research you determine you're probably going to want a little more than the base model but that little more is going to cost you a lot more money.
     
  11. elistan macrumors 6502a

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    Denver/Boulder, CO
    #11
    My five year old BMW is still going strong. I tend to keep vehicles 10+ years so I can see looking at a Tesla 3 five years from now.

    Tesla 3 base price and options:
    Base - $35,000 (220 mile range)
    Long Range Battery - $9,000 (310 mile range)
    Premium - $5,000 (upgraded materials, stereo, power seats/mirrors, LED fog lamps, etc)
    Autopilot - $5,000
    Self Drive - $3,000 (plus $5000 for the required Autopilot) (not currently available due to ongoing validation and regulation)

    edit - number from here https://electrek.co/2017/07/29/tesla-model-3-production-specs-revealed/
     
  12. kobalap thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #12
    So help me understand your thought process here.

    Why is a $35K Tesla 3 not a $35K Tesla 3? Is a $34K BMW 3 series sedan not a $34K BMW 3 series sedan?

    If I option a base BMW 3 series:
    - bigger engine + $5K-$15k
    - any color than alpine white or jet black + $700
    - real leather +$1500
    - BMW don't have anything close to Auto pilot but their driver assistance packages start at $1500
    - currently, I don't think they have an AWD option

    I haven't done a similar assessment for an Audi or a Merc but I imagine the story is largely the same.
     
  13. darksithpro macrumors regular

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    Oct 27, 2016
    #13
    The average cost of electricity in the US is 12 cents per kWh. Therefore, the average person driving the average EV 15,000 miles per year pays about $540.00 per year to charge it.
    How Much Does It Cost To Charge An Electric Car? - Plug In America
    https://pluginamerica.org/how-much-does-it-cost-charge-electric-car/


    So there are 52 weeks in a year, most people fill up every two weeks, so that's 26 times a year, which means you'd still technically be spending 20 dollars every two weeks to charge your vehicle. Average national gas price is 2.33, so you figure you're saving roughly 12 dollars every two, so an average of 312 a year on gas savings. Figure you keep the car 5 you're only saving roughly $1,500 on gas.
     
  14. kobalap thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #14
    Biggest bang for the buck for electric and hybrid technology are not these tiny sedans and hatchbacks. They are the big pickup trucks or even commercial vehicles - big trucks and buses.

    Cars like the Tesla 3 or even the rest of the Tesla line are meant to compete on their own merits. That is, if you compare them to the equivalent models that you get from German luxury car makers, they provide roughly the same level of luxury with more future looking tech.
     
  15. A.Goldberg, Aug 3, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017

    A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    #15
    The Model 3 was touted as a $35,000 Tesla that would be achievable for an average person. It however is far more than $35,000 for a decently equipped car. And that's just preliminary package pricing, there will more than likely be options that cost even more. $50,000+ is a whole new price bracket.

    Comparing a $50,000 Tesla to say a $50,000 BMW, I think you'd get a much better deal going with the BMW. The entry level luxury sedan is one of the most competitive segments. If you look at brands who have attempted to enter this market in the US (i.e. Jaguar, Alfa, etc) you can see how tough it is. Tesla has the advantage of having a full EV, but surely it's only a matter of time before BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc offer an electric power train.

    Not surprisingly a lot of Model 3 preorders have been cancelled.

    BMW has had AWD for years and autonomic features are rapidly being released by many companies. A 330i is still faster than a Model 3 0-60.

    It's not just options, it's things like interior build quality, reliability, driving dynamics, practicality, and ease of repair that will also factor into people's buying decisions. Tesla, isn't out of the red yet either.

    Volvo says all of their cars will be hybrid or electric by 2019. They also have been leaders in bringing autonomous technology to less expensive cars. So it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
     
  16. kobalap, Aug 3, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017

    kobalap thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #16
    What is "decently" equipped? If you compare a $35K german luxury car to a Tesla 3, they look comparably equipped to me. All of them are basic. The Germans give you faux leather at that price. No multi adjustment heated seats, no tech, nothing. Here is a list of what you don't get with the BMW 3 series at ~$35K:
    • Universal Remote Transmitter (For Garage Door, Security System, Etc.)
    • Transmission, Cruise And Audio Controls On Steering Wheel
    • Electrochromatic Inside Rearview Mirror
    • Multi adjustable front seats
      • 10-Way Power Driver Seat
      • 10-Way Power Passenger Seat
      • 2-Way Manual Driver Seat Adjustments
      • 2-Way Manual Passenger Seat Adjustment
      • Driver Seat Thigh Extension
      • Sport Front Seats
    • Folding With Pass-Thru Center Armrest
    • Rear Manual Side Window Shades
    • Harman Kardon Surround Sound System
    • Active Cruise Control
    Anything remotely looking like luxury is not included in their base model.

    If you compare a $50k Tesla 3 to a $50K BMW 3, you get a lot of car for the Tesla. And you get stuff not even available from the BMW 3 series. For example, Autopilot is much more advanced that anything available from BMW. And as far as I know, there is no AWD option for the 3 series.
     
  17. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #17
    1st models are always hit/miss, no thanks.
     
  18. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    #18
    I edited my post a little, not sure if you had time to read it. The interiors of BMW, Mercedes, and Audi look as if they're using much better quality parts. Aesthetically better looking too, but that's subjective.

    You can spend $65,000 on a GMC Yukon or $65,000 on something like an BMW X5. The BMW has a much better ride and interior. The same price doesn't mean you're getting the same car.

    I built a 330i with metallic paint, cold weather pack, lighting pack, vision package, autonomic pack, active cruise control... all for about $50,000 MSRP. Real world pricing is probably slightly less. Tesla on the other hand does not negotiate.

    A Tesla would cost
    $35,000 base
    $9,000 extended battery (we could debate this inclusion, but 200mi is barely sufficient for a small day trip)
    $5,000 premium package
    $5,000 autonomic pack (not 100% comparable but close)
    $1000+ for in-home charging (if you don't have 240 service even more)
    -----------------------------------
    $55,000 (and we still don't know prices on things like metallic paint, etc)

    Yes, you might save on gas, but you will be paying more for electricity and Teslas are very costly to insure. Factor in all the practicality and reliability issues. It doesn't seem like that enticing of a deal to me. Right now wait times for service on Teslas are very long, dealers and superchargers are few and far between. If you live in the city you'll probably run into an issue if you park on the street or your lot or garage doesn't (or has limited) EV chargers. There's a lot of stuff that needs to be worked out before I personally would consider buying one.

    My girlfriends father has a Model S 90D. He's pretty happy with it, but it barely makes it from their place in NYC to their house on Nantucket. I will say for the price of that car, the interior built quality isn't great. But that's been a common theme of Tesla criticisms.
     
  19. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #19
    I own a 2013 Model S and should be getting a Model 3 soon.

    I think it's a great value for the money compared to a BMW 3/4 or Mercedes C.

    https://electrek.co/2017/07/31/tesla-model-3-vs-bmw-3-series/amp/

    As for gas savings, let me show you my experience with the S for the last 5 years and 60K miles.

    I live in Northern California and I pay the EV rate of 10 cents per kwh from 11pm to 7am. That means I can fully charge the new Model 3 for $7.50 and drive 310 miles. A comparable BMW 3 Series might get close to 31 mpg so would take 10 gallons to go the same distance. A gallon of premium in my neighborhood is about $3.00. So, I would have to spend $30 instead of $7.50 or about 75% less per mile.
     
  20. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    #20
    @kobalap
    http://www.investors.com/news/this-chart-shows-the-electric-vehicle-race-that-no-one-wants-to-win/

    Tesla is due to hit their tax credit maximum by early/mid 2018. The majority of the subsidies are applied to the Model 3 right now.

    If the government decides to extend the tax credits, then I guess Tesla won't have to worry too much. But given who is in charge these days I find that highly questionable. States might step in by increasing tax credits, but again that's very questionable too.
     
  21. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #21
    I like the idea behind the Model 3, but the interior execution is what killed it for me.
    And as others have stated, I can get a decent Model S for a few grand more than a loaded 3, and have a lot more range and features. You now... like a dashboard with gauges. Call me old school, but I don't see how that panel in the middle is even safe. No HUD option either that I can find.
     
  22. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #22
    Why are people comparing an electric car with gas powered ones?

    Many incentives for buying electric at least in Canada and the cost of gas make these much harder to compare. Add the ideology slant and the fact that this will be the new Prius where hipsters can snub you for driving gas is extra points.
     
  23. elistan macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    If I add all packages to a base RWD 330i, price goes from $38,750 to $54,350.
    If I add all packages to a base AWD 330i, price goes from $40,750 to $56,350.
    A base Accord at $22,445 can go up to $34,930.
    (Not implying any sort of feature parity between the various cars. Also not including various options like cargo nets and such. Just an FYI, not trying to support any particular point in the discussion.)
     
  24. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #24
    I think Musk is trying to capture the same minimalism that the iPhone created vs Blackberry. Have you seen a recent BMW interior? Way too many buttons.
     
  25. kobalap thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #25
    There are two topics here and both seem like they are worthy of consideration:

    1) Is the base model Tesla 3 a reasonable option for someone who is shopping a base model ($35K) German luxury car. From what I can gather, I would say it is. This was the intent of my starting this thread was to talk about the base model and how so many people write it off as if it was a fake/not real option. But to me, it seems as legitamate (or not legitimate) as what the German brands offer.

    2) How does a ~$50K Tesla 3 compare to a ~$50K BMW, Audi, Merc. Based on your data, it seems close. I could argue that the tech in the Tesla will be more advanced but maybe that remains to be seen. As for the price difference, one is made in 'Murica and won't need the things like oil changes, transmission service, timing belt replacement, etc. Plus, a fraction of those buying the upgraded models will qualify for government subsidies.

    Even outside of the potential savings (gas vs. electric) which I personally think will be negligible, it seems like the Tesla 3 is at the very least equivalent to the German competition - base models and upgraded models.
     

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