Anyone else upset over a few of the implemented features of 4s and ios5?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by macguy360, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. macguy360 macrumors 6502a

    Feb 23, 2011
    1) I personally am blown away that Siri is completely network based. Considering there are many features that should not require any network use such as setting a reminder, calling a specific contact, setting an alarm, preparing a text message.

    If Apple had made siri software based and implemented into ios5 with 4s being the only device capable of using it then siri would be able to be used for all of those features without having to connect to a server somewhere. Instead, siri appears to be completely network based and if there are any issues with network connection or the siri servers then the user is left without siri functionality.

    Add to the fact that since siri is completely network based, it also uses up data for features that would otherwise not use data you begin to stack up your data usage towards your cap (if your verizon or ATT).

    2) The other feature which really bothers me is the ios5 imessaging. This is a feature that should have been implemented back when text messages were ridiculously expensive and data was unlmited rather than being implemented when data is limited and messaging is somewhat cheap. Considering that all 3 carriers have unlimited texting as either automatically implemented (Sprint & ATT) or for $20 ( Verizon) and then data is capped by the 2 major carriers.

    This means that even though you most likely have unlimited messaging, you will not be using your allotment from the unlimited pool every time you send a message to another ios5 iphone user, you will actually be using some of your limited data. This is unless you have personally gone into your phones settings and disabled imessaging. The average iPhone user doesn't know that this is even an option. They won't know until they get a hefty bill from ATT or Verizon after sending video & picture messages to their friends.

    What's even worse is that users have the option of sending out pictures to all their contacts. Imagine taking a beautiful picture with your nice new 8mp camera on your iPhone 4s and then deciding you want to share it with all your friends. Considering its 2.6mb, if you have 20 friends with iphones then you just used 50mb of your data for that one text message to all of them. Thinking about taking a 1 minute video and sending it out to your friends? Same situation will result in a 165mb data hit.

    The main problem I have with the imessage feature is that it is automatically implemented rather than being turned off initially like siri. This is a feature that could potentially use up TONS of data and most people don't even know that it can be turned off. It seems like a shady tactic that mostly works in favor of ATT/Verizon. That is, unless you still have a grandfathered unlimited plan through ATT. In that case only, you will actually benefit from this feature as you will probably still have the old text messaging limits that came a long with it.

    For many, if not most iPhone users, the imessage system could be the straw that breaks the data cap.
  2. Jimbo47 macrumors 6502a

    Jun 21, 2010
    In my case, I love iMessage. Most of my friends don't have iPhones, but for the ones who do, they don't have Verizon. With verizon's unlimited texting (I assume other carriers are the same?) texting numbers on other carriers isn't truly unlimited (on verizon, you only have 250 texts total to work with for texting other carriers). I can't tell you how many times I've went over that 250 text limit, and the bill caught me off guard. So I can see iMessage being useful in that situation.
  3. verwon macrumors 68030


    Jul 26, 2011
    iMessage is also great for international texting.
  4. macguy360 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Feb 23, 2011
    So what you are saying is that you are only paying $5 per month for 250 messages and were upset that you would exceed it sending texts outside of verizon to other carriers?

    Per Recipient Billing

    What are the benefits of Verizon Wireless’ messaging packages?

    Verizon Wireless offers four (4) Messaging Bundles that include allowances for domestic text, picture and video messages, starting as low as $5 monthly access. In addition, Verizon Wireless’ Nationwide Select, Connect and Premium Plans include unlimited messaging to any number in the U.S.

    That is quoted directly from verizon's website. The unlimited text messaging plan is unlimited to any number in the U.S.

    The main point of my article was that Imessage is just another feature that will stack up your data usage which for 2 out of 3 carriers will bring you closer to going over your limit.

    If you decide to try and save $15 by only having a 250 message plan, then you take the risk of going over with your regular messages but if you use imessage you take the risk of going over on your data. Personally, I don't want to have to track how much data or text messages I'm using and so I have the imessage feature disabled.
  5. futch macrumors 6502


    Dec 31, 2008
    Return the phone. You don't deserve Siri or iMessage.

    Breaking news: Voice interpretation requires server side algorithms to interpret what is being said and sending video to friends uses data.
  6. macguy360 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Feb 23, 2011
    since when does voice interpretation require server side algorithms? Your saying it isn't possible to run those algorithms on the phone's processor and have your phone use a hard drive database to determine it?

    Because if what your saying is correct, ANY AND ALL SMART PHONES should be able to use Siri. It's basically the same concept as the online gaming system known as Onlive. Everything is server side which requires only basic hardware on the user's side.

    You basically just argued against yourself all star.
  7. futch macrumors 6502


    Dec 31, 2008
    Your phone does not have the memory or processing power to interpret everything Siri can interpret. Boomroasted.
  8. macguy360, Oct 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2011

    macguy360 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Feb 23, 2011
    If the phone doesn't have the memory or processing power to do everything that siri can do, then all Iphones should be able to use Siri, not just the 4s. That is what I am saying. The argument that it has to be server based is null if at the same time you also say the iPhone 4 cannot use it.

    Ever heard of dragon naturally speaking? You can use it to control your computer and have it do any functions it is capable of doing. And this has been running and is capable of running on computers that are single core 1ghz processors.

    and by the way, video messaging is included in text messaging plans. It does not use data. Go look it up at the AT&T website or Verizon website.
  9. futch, Oct 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2011

    futch macrumors 6502


    Dec 31, 2008
    You're very good at taking one sentence of mine and adding 30 lines of text I never said. That alone provides plenty of insight into the way you think and react to being wrong.

    Ask Dragon if you need an umbrella in Miami, Florida tomorrow. Let me know what it says. I'll wait.

    If you aren't happy with the way Apple has implemented Siri, iOS5 or any other feature return the phone. It's that simple.
  10. PoitNarf macrumors 65816


    May 28, 2007
    Northern NJ
    If you run into a situation where you're sending a photo to 20 different people, wouldn't it be much more efficient to attach it to an email to those 20 people? That way you're only uploading the photo once.
  11. macguy360 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Feb 23, 2011
    With group messaging, your essentially only attaching the photo once and then the phone sends out the message to all recipients. It's for people who like to text a lot and also get their message out to friends who respond faster to text messages than to email.
  12. fleavers macrumors newbie


    Sep 20, 2008
    I dont generally like getting into these "discussions" but i know this is part of why Siri is not on the iphone. (note Siri is partly based one/uses Wolfram Alpha, which is an AI similar to Siri)

    From Wolfram Alphas own web site

    "When we launch Wolfram|Alpha this weekend, it will be running Mathematica on about 10,000 processor cores,"

    The iPhone 4s doesn't have anywhere near 10,000 processing cores, so there is no way they could build it into the phone. and as far as Siri not being able to be used on the iPhone 4 or iPad 2 I have no idea maybe there is a chip inside that iPhone 4s that is some how needed to run Siri.

    link here ->

    here are a couple links about Siri using Wolfram Alpha
  13. futch macrumors 6502


    Dec 31, 2008
    I receive an email on my phone almost as fast as I receive a text, if not faster. I can also respond just as fast. Your phone might be broken if you can't do the same thing.
  14. TLewis macrumors 65816

    Sep 19, 2007
    left coast, US
    If you're that unhappy, you should return the iPhone.
  15. macguy360 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Feb 23, 2011
    Lol, I am not unhappy to the point of wanting to return the phone. I am simply bringing to light one of the implemented features that might come back to bite some people with extra charges later on.

    If you saw a business practice that seemed a bit shady wouldn't you say something?

    Some people on here defend anything said against iPhone like it was a personal attack on themselves.


    And by the way, if people weren't so concerned over their data usage, there wouldn't be several posts on here asking about how much data Siri uses.

    My post was just about bringing to light the fact that imessage is automatically implemented and causes people to use more data than they would normally without them even realizing. Instead of people saying "oh thanks for the heads up, yeah it is sneaky to automatically have that included" I get responses of people saying I should get rid of my phone.
  16. futch macrumors 6502


    Dec 31, 2008

    I do not take it as a personal attack against me. I also do not see it as a flaw as you do. There is nothing shady about either of the 2 complaints you made in your original post, nothing at all.

    I guess I am biased in the data area as I am grandfathered into AT&T's unlimited data plan.
  17. TLewis macrumors 65816

    Sep 19, 2007
    left coast, US

    • Apple's known for only putting the latest and greatest features on their latest and greatest devices. It's not surprising. They've done this before, and I imagine that they'll do it again. Yes, people complain, but your only choice is to not buy Apple.

    • Yes, iMessage uses data. If you don't like it, you can turn it off. I don't care. :D (I also use an app that monitors my 3G data usage.)
  18. Mortalias macrumors 6502


    Aug 24, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    Eh, the majority of my iMessages are sent via Wi-fi and not using data so it really doesn't matter to me. I don't see any of these complaints to be problematic to be honest.
  19. Jimbo47 macrumors 6502a

    Jun 21, 2010

    No. I have the $10 plan which includes unlimited texting to VERIZON customers, and 500 (250 sending, 250 receiving) to non-Verizon customers. The unlimited to any number plan is $30. Sorry, I'm not paying $30 for texting, and another $30 for data.
  20. OneMike macrumors 603


    Oct 19, 2005
    Siri is still beta. I hope it will get faster in the future. It's great, but like anything in the cloud or offsite. As we experienced during launch. It's only good if the network is available.

    For me iMessage is great. I reset my settings on my phone today to see if it would help with my battery issues. I sent a text in my previous imessage chat and it immediately put an divider with text above my message. I immediately looked at the icon and noticed it was green. At that point I remembered you had to manually enable imessage.

    I have sending an receiving regular texts blocked on my phone so no issue. I don't find it shady though. Shady would be no notification, just continuing the chat history and same color send button.
  21. rgarjr macrumors 603


    Apr 2, 2009
    Southern California
    it does suck that that Siri is completely networked based and is useless without internet connection. Hopefully they will change that and allow it to do off line functions.
  22. sweetbrat macrumors 65816


    Jun 17, 2009
    Redford, MI
    If you don't have a texting plan and someone sends you a text, it costs you money. Unless you know to have your carrier disable it on your account. iMessage doesn't necessarily cost you anything, except for tiny bits of data. Chances are this isn't going to be enough to put anyone over their data usage.

    But even so, you can turn it off. Just like you could turn off texting. It's really not any different. If you don't know to turn it off, it could cost you money. If you're worried about your friends sending you video, tell them not to. I can do that just as easily as I used to tell people not to send me a text unless it was an emergency because I would get charged for it (back when I didn't have a texting plan at all).

    iMessage has the ability to save people money. Many won't need an unlimited texting plan anymore. And if it was turned off by default, everyone here in the forums would be screaming that it didn't work, etc. etc.
  23. IcyStorm macrumors regular

    Oct 24, 2010
    Siri is network-based like most if not all voice dictation systems like Google's Voice Search/Actions and Vlingo.

    CPU architectures are different and you can't assume that something that runs well on a x86 CPU will work well on a Cortex-A9 can run it at the same speed and efficiency.

    Besides, given the fluctuation in Siri's uptime, enabling Siri on every iOS device may result in even more server outages.

    The carriers' failures to provide unlimited data aren't Apple's fault. And these features aren't necessary to providing the functionality you've always enjoyed with your iOS device (there are a good number of other improvements with iOS 5). Not saying you can't criticize these features, but given what they are, they're fine.
  24. TLewis macrumors 65816

    Sep 19, 2007
    left coast, US
    Before iOS5, my friends and I used beluga for messages, which uses pure data only. We never worry about data usage, as most of our usage is over wifi. We've since switched to iMessage, and we're happy with it.
  25. GTGeek88 macrumors newbie

    Oct 15, 2011
    It's not that you'd need 10,000 cores to run it. They need mega processing power due to millions of people hitting it. An individual phone wouldn't need that much, but you'd likely need more processing power than is available on the iPhone 4S presently and you'd need a lot of data storage. They use advanced algorithms and run these against a large speech corpus, most likely. I'm not sure of the size of their corpus, but it'd take up a large percentage of the iPhone's memory or it would max it out completely. And how would you update it? You'd have to update millions of iPhones and the updates could be quite large. Being server based, it's much easier to update and tweak on a daily basis (or even more frequently). It probably keeps their algorithms more secure, also.

    As for it not running on anything other than the 4S, I think that's just a marketing decision.


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