Anyone notice this on new imacs??

qfunk

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 2, 2002
13
0
I just picked up a new g4 800mhz imac today and noticed something odd right away:

The display gets brighter toward the bottom. The image is darker at the top than the bottom of the display.

Anyone else have one that can take a look and tell me if that's just the nature of the beast with LCD displays? I've never owned one, so I don't know. Just put a solid color as your desktop image and take a look.

I'll be curious to hear what others notice. I think it's a pretty noticable thing...

qfunk

PS: Is there a calibration to correct for such a thing?
 

menoinjun

macrumors 6502a
Jul 7, 2001
567
0
Well, that's probably caused by the backlight behind the screen. Maybe the top one is out (if there are two) and you should call Apple to get it fixed. I've heard of this happening before, but not with the new iMacs. Sometimes bulbs go.

-Pete
 

Quark

macrumors regular
Jan 9, 2002
245
0
Mine is the same

I don't think there is anything wrong with it.

Mine is exactly as you described and I found it a little odd at first. Now it's just a little annoying.

I look at another iMac G4 800Mhz in a store and it was exactly the same.

I don't understand why no one has mentioned this in any of the reviews.

I am new to Macs and wasn't sure what to make of this.

I try not to think about it too much; the system still kicks major butt!!

Take care,
Quark
 

mymemory

macrumors 68020
May 9, 2001
2,495
0
Miami
That shouldn't be like that, the image should look the same every where in the screen. For me that may be a bug of the first production iMac. Check out in the future if Apple correct that problem. I'm sure they won't talk about it right now because they have bigger problems distributing them... or may be that's why the production is getting so slow.
 

AlphaTech

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2001
4,556
0
Natick, MA
Does the screen look like that no matter what angle you adjust it to? I have seen some LCD screens have dark spots or regions depending on the angle that you view them at.

If it does it no matter what angle you view it, then contact Apple about it.
 

IndyGopher

macrumors 6502a
Nov 3, 2001
782
1
Indianapolis, IN
If indeed changing the angle at which you're viewing the screen doesn't eliminate the problem, you need to talk to Apple. I do not have that problem on my iMac. I do, however, see a noticible shift in brightness on my Apple 17" flat panel on the other computer... it also is a function of angle, though. Unfortunately with the easel design of the studio display, getting a good angle is harder than on the iMac.
 

qfunk

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 2, 2002
13
0
angle has nothing to do with it. It's like that at every angle. I've been looking around in this forum and it seems that it is the same on everybody's unit.

It does bug me. Since it's the only monitor I can use with it, it matters...

I'm going to call Apple tomorrow. I'll post an update...

qfunk
 

Beej

macrumors 68020
Jan 6, 2002
2,139
0
Buffy's bedroom
On LCDs...

I just got a 22" cinema display. Apple reckons they have a 160 degree viewing angle, but what a load. It'd be lucky to have 100 degrees. Anyone have a 22" that can claim has a 160 degree viewing angle?
 

qfunk

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 2, 2002
13
0
again, it doesn't have anything to do with viewing angle. It does it from any angle. Sure, the brightness of the WHOLE monitor changes a bit at a different angle, but it's still darker at the top than the bottom. At any angle.

Has anyone already talked to Apple about this?
 

qfunk

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 2, 2002
13
0
Since nobody has done it on this board, I'm going to chronicle my adventure regarding this problem. I'm starting to feel a little robbed. Yes, at $1915 with tax, this computer offers alot of features. But something being this funky with the display, to me as a graphic designer, is a BIG problem.

It's 9:30 am the day after my purchase and I'm waiting for the apple store to open so that I can call them about the problem. I laid in bed last night until 3 am just totally bumming out about it. I DREAMT about bumming out about it...

The worst thing of all is that, unless it's a defect, meaning NOT something they all do, it's going to be subject to the 10% restocking fee if I have to return it. That comes out to $179. That seems unfair to me. If the processor on every unit only ran at half the speed it claims too, would it not be fair to return it in that case? According to this logic, it wouldn't be returnable without the restocking fee.

If you bought a big screen tv (a comparable purchase and analogy), and the screen was 8-10% brighter on the bottom than the top, would you not return it? On a big screen, it'd be an annoying phenomenon. Now imagine on a monitor, 16" from your face, which you rely on to judge color balance for graphic design... Ugh.

I'm not happy.
 

qfunk

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 2, 2002
13
0
Also, when running under OSX, I've noticed that they created a background screen where the color balance is exaggerated in gradiating to brighter toward the bottom of the screen. I don't think this is a coincidence. I think it's Apple attempting to disguise the problem so people won't notice it as easily...
 

mymemory

macrumors 68020
May 9, 2001
2,495
0
Miami
qfunk

If you ask for a replacement you shouldn't have to pay the 10%.

In my experience I recomend you to wait like that for at list a month until Apple have enoght time and stock to replace your machine. Righ now they are out as we all know. Because my intuition tell me that if you go now and talk to the reseller, may be that issue is not well know already and they may be they may tell you the unit works fine. Just call to see what happend, in the practice you will see.

I have my Pismo and to get the best image I have to flip the LCD almos 120 degrees!, then is when I got the best contrast and krispiest image.
 

qfunk

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 2, 2002
13
0
Again, it has nothing to do with viewing angle... It's the same at any angle.

MyMemory, that's the problem. I've now confirmed (at least with those shipped to the U.S.) that it's a universal problem. I've had 3 independent apple store walk-in confirmations (going in to look at the display models), as well as others in this and other boards complaining of the same thing. Most people say "I just try to ignore it." So exchanging it for another of the same unit isn't the solution. I'd have to get something different.

And I'm a graphic designer, so I can't simply ignore it. I need to judge color balance and tone on this thing. How do you do that like this? ("ok... now if you look here, I'm going to slide this pic to about 2/3 the way up the screen until... yep... hold it... yep... right THERE... that's the shade this color is supposed to be...")

Unacceptable.

I'm on hold with Apple tech support right now. The first guy I talked to said he'd never heard of the problem. I asked "Have you checked the message boards lately?..."

He's in the process of talking with a product specialist, I'm still on hold...

More news at 11...

Qfunk
 

qfunk

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 2, 2002
13
0
I'm just absolutely annoyed now.

The specialist they put me through to first decided explain to me how LCD displays work. ...in a manner that implied I was an idiot. Bulbs in the back and yada yada. And that brightness variations like this are normal. When I pointed out that the standard separate flat panel displays in the store did NOT do it, he then said "Well, those are pro displays and this is a consumer model." I said "Consumer or not, it's the only flat panel mac display that exhibits this problem, that makes it a design screw up." He said "no, it doesn't, it's normal."

Argument after argument was answered with a condescending, matter-of-fact B.S. answer. He absolutely REFUSED to even acknowledge that it was a DESIGN screw-up.

They will not waive a restocking fee to return it. There is nothing they can do about it. It's "normal." I brought up every point I've made in this thread, and their answer to every question or point was, in a nutshell, I'm screwed and they don't care and won't do anything about it. I said "Isn't it a little wrong tha someone could turn on their brand new computer and have something like this be bad enough that I notice it and am bugged by it within 10 seconds of turning it on?" "I'm sorry, there' s really nothing I can do for you" he said at one point. I actually got so angry, I asked him if they cared at all about customer satisfaction after they've been paid and the computer leaves the store, and he said "Of course, sir." ...but there's "nothing" he can do for me... I'm tempted to take it back anyway and eat the $180 and not buy another new mac. I'll buy something used and not give them any more of my money. I feel sick to my stomach. I had to save for a long time to get this machine... :(

When did Apple become Microsoft? The last time I ever had to call tech support there for anything was around 1995. My how times have changed. They went from bending over backwards to keep their smaller-than-ever market share happy, to not giving a crap once they have your money. It's a sad state of affairs.

Qfunk
 

beatle888

macrumors 68000
Feb 3, 2002
1,690
0
LCD for color critical work? what a joke

And I'm a graphic designer, so I can't simply ignore it. I need to judge color balance and tone on this thing. How do you do that like this? ("ok... now if you look here, I'm going to slide this pic to about 2/3 the way up the screen until... yep... hold it... yep... right THERE... that's the shade this color is supposed to be...")




Thats crazy, I've spent three years as Director of Color at
an ad agency in Santa Ana, CA. as well as freelancing at
other agencies. I would never recommend color correction
or even more importantly tone adjustments using a LCD monitor.
If you want to use a monitor as a soft proof than you need a CRT.
There is NO question about it. Good luck on JUDGING color and tone
on an LCD. Just hope you send out for Match Prints before you go to
print. Unless its web work than good luck anyway.
 

AlphaTech

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2001
4,556
0
Natick, MA
I seem to remember a macworld article about color accuracy of lcd monitors. Essentially they said that they are not (yet) at the same level as crt monitors are. Personally, since I am no longer in the design field (BFA in graphic design), 100% color accuracy doesn't mean much to me. Also, since I AM color blind (I see about 40-50% of the actual colors) I never really worried about it too much. I have done things with color, but usually I need to get another set of eyes to confirm that things look correct. When I was a designer, I would ask for PMS color numbers to use. That way, I knew that the color would be correct.

This has also made my paintings 'interesting' to say the least :D...
 

Scab Cake

macrumors member
Jul 26, 2001
81
0
E-mail Steve Jobs

I remember reading somewhere an article about a guy who bought a cube with stress cracks in the case and he had the same sort of situation. Paid a lot of money for a computer and the case is cracked. Apparently, the tech support people kept telling him that it's "normal" and that there's "nothing" they can do. So, the guy got so fed up he emailed Steve Jobs. I don't know what the email address is, but I'm sure it's somewhere on the net. Anyway, I guess he actually READS that email because Steve ended up calling the guy at his house and telling him that he will PERSONALLY ship out a new case for the cube.

Hey, I know that kind of stuff rarely happens, but you never know.

Give it a shot and good luck!!
 

qfunk

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Mar 2, 2002
13
0
No, I understand that LCDs aren't proof accurate. I know that. But that's a different issue than the one I'm raising. I did this today:

Took a pantone color and filled a small box with it. Then I moved it around on my screen and found the pantone equivilent in each area I moved it to (to see the brightness/pantone color at each spot on the monitor.

Guess what: From top to bottom, depending on the color you test with, it moves as far as 3 place on a pantone color book page. I'm not talking about a problem because the monitor itself isn't spot on color accurate, I'm saying that if you have a document open, the same color on the bottom of the page looks like a different color than the same color at the top.

However, this will be my last posting on the subject because I did some investigating today. Here's what I found after a trip to the Apple Store just now:

All the flat panel iMacs do it. All the Ibooks do it. All the Titaniums do it. And the 15 inch stand alone flat panel display does it as well. The 17" and above do not do it, but they start at $999 (for the apple-brand version). So, to correct the situation, you have to get to about $2600 for a minimal tower/flat panel configuration.

Now that I know all the portables and the stand alone 15 do it, I'm feeling better about it. It's a clear economic factor: They don't justify putting enough bulbs for completely even coverage on the displays smaller than 17". It may ALSO be a factor of a bit of a change in the technology used for the bigger flat panel displays, but I don't know. Just makes sense...

Anyway, I'm hoping these posts will help others who come across this to understand what's going on. I was lost and there wasn't much help to find...

Thanks,
Qfunk
 

AlphaTech

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2001
4,556
0
Natick, MA
My ViewSonic LCD (VG175) has even color over it's entire surface. It cost me under $900, and it has a larger visable area then Apple's 17" LCD (and costs less too).

It also has two inputs for more then one computer. IF you want an affordable, high quality LCD screen, and don't care that it doesn't match your G4 tower, go with the ViewSonic.
 

crassusad44

macrumors 6502a
Nov 30, 2001
546
0
Scandinavia
What is this......??? I work with iBooks, PowerBooks, PowerMacs and (lucky me) the new iMac every day, but have not noticed this problem on any of the Macs you have mentioned.... The new iMacs screen appear to me as as bright and crisp as the 17" Studio Display...
 
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