Apple’s Software Quality Decline

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by Michaelgtrusa, Oct 12, 2014.

  1. Michaelgtrusa macrumors 604

    Michaelgtrusa

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  2. decafjava macrumors 68000

    decafjava

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    #2
    Yea, there's something wrong when even a simple thing like updating apps OTA is impossible because:
    1) The servers are so busy the apps just don't update
    2) If I use itunes the badge does not change to reflect that. :mad:
     
  3. roadbloc macrumors G3

    roadbloc

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    #3
    I personally feel that Apple's software quality has been on decline ever since they switched to Intel for their Macs. The PowerPC days (once matured) were rock solid. Now Apple's software always feels lazily written.
     
  4. Rogifan macrumors P6

    Rogifan

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    #4
    Perhaps Apple is trying to do too much to quickly. At least I think that's the case with iOS. But I partly blame that on Steve Jobs and Scott Forstall for allowing iOS to get behind the competition in terms of features/capabilities.

    John Gruber had Guy English on his latest episode of the Talk Show and they both agreed that Apple is trying to fit too much into yearly updates (that probably aren't really a year as a good chunk of that time is spent bug fixing and pushing point updates to the current version of the software). But they both also agreed that if Apple was still siloed like it was under Jobs we wouldn't have most of the stuff we've got now.

    I think Apple really needs to step it up when it comes to software quality. And I would be perfectly happy if there was no iOS 9 and all we got was iOS 8.5, a really good version of iOS 8. At the same time, I'm willing to put up with some of the growing pains if it means we get useful features like control center, extensions, 3rd party keyboards, continuity, etc. I think iOS is at a place now where Apple can spend time polishing what they've got (aside from any new features they might have for a larger iPad).
     
  5. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    #5
    I don't feel it is in decline... Even in the early days, there were issues. I think we are seeing and hearing about more because Apple is bigger and in the spot light more.

    I do feel they are spreading themselves out way to thin though.
     
  6. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #6
    They have had a few missteps in the recent past, surprisingly unapple like.

    I've been more or less displeased with apple's offering whether its quality or just depth of features, i.e., new versions removing major features.
     
  7. OatmealRocks macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    Compared to Windows... nah they still good. Perspective people, unless you can tell me something better.
     
  8. roadbloc macrumors G3

    roadbloc

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    #8
    I dunno... I find Microsoft's software to be much more stable and productive than Apple's at the moment. Apple appear to be content with cutting features all the time and then never returning them. :(
     
  9. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #9
    Oh, I don't know, I'm seeing MS swing for the fences on a number of things and the quality has been very stable. I think MS is working hard to innovate and roll out high quality products. At the moment they're succeeding.

    Apple on the other hand, adds a few small features and then messes something up. Just look at the botched 8.01 patch as an example.
     
  10. 556fmjoe macrumors 65816

    556fmjoe

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    #10
    Apple's release process is the problem. There are two ways to release an OS or software with reliability.

    1.) You can set a hard deadline, but only include software that is ready. Any software or feature that is not ready by the deadline gets left out until it's finished and goes in the next release.

    2.) Alternatively, you can set a requirement for features that will be included, but get rid of the deadline. Take the time to get it right and release it when everything works reliably, not on an arbitrary date.

    The worst thing to do is combine this and require that features be included in a release and that the product be released on a particular date. This is why new releases from Apple and Microsoft are often buggy. They make public promises of features that will be in their next release before they are done, which means their developers are under pressure to get it done quickly.
     
  11. Rogifan macrumors P6

    Rogifan

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    #11
    Hmm...

    http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-withdraws-another-buggy-update-7000034819/

    ----------

    Yes, I think iOS releases should be decoupled from iPhone launches. iOS 8 wasn't ready for prime time but Apple had to release it with the new phones. Also maybe get on a two year release cycle with the off years only adding whatever is necessary to support new hardware. We don't need an iOS 9 next year, we need a more polished and bug free iOS 8.
     
  12. ohbrilliance macrumors 6502a

    ohbrilliance

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    #12
    They're just trying to do too much. If you take stock of the product and software announcements in the last two keynotes, there's an awful lot going on.
    There was a time when Apple delayed OS X to redeploy resources on iOS. Today they're working hard on both simultaneously, while adding features at a furious pace. I wished they'd slow down a bit. The quality hasn't bothered me, but the feature set is becoming daunting.
     
  13. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #13

    Im not saying their perfect but I think their overall track record is good.

    Look at the latest patches from windows, pretty solid. WP8.1 was solid. The win 10 preview seems surprisingly stable given the early nature of the OS (at least for me).

    My point is not that if one company has a buggy app, but rather a good track record of quality apps, and I think MS has a better one then apple at the moment. Just my opinion based on my personal experience.
     
  14. grahamperrin macrumors 601

    grahamperrin

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    #14
    My one word to explain (not excuse) the decline

    trendy trendy trendy trendy trendy
     
  15. TomTomHatesCats macrumors regular

    TomTomHatesCats

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    #15
    In Apple's defense, they're doing something new this year by trying to integrate Mac OS and iOS and many of the problems have stemmed from that.

    At the same time, that was their own decision, and spreading themselves thin with a fragmented iPhone 6/6+ release, launching a new payment system, developing new tech for a 5K iMac, & entering a new product category with Apple Watch didn't help.

    You can say that most if not all of those things have been in development for a long time, but they really seem to have bitten off more than they could chew compared to recent years.
     
  16. grahamperrin macrumors 601

    grahamperrin

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    #16
    Years, maybe.

    If not years, then I wonder why people were not on board sooner. A guess: developer reluctance to implement inappropriate design decisions.
     
  17. smoledman macrumors 68000

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    Oct 17, 2011
    #17
    No *****. Just the other day I had to restart OS X(Yosemite) because it wouldn't recognize my iPad for charging or in iTunes. This happens more regular then it used to.

    Microsoft makes way better software. Apple makes great hardware.

    ----------

    Based on what? Windows rocks.
     
  18. katewes macrumors 6502

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    Jun 7, 2007
    #18
    As an Apple user for several decades, I used to loathe Windows XP for its instability, and deride the pedestrian look of Windows 7, and the lack of artistic flair of Windows 8. But it's gotten to the point where Windows 10 and Yosemite have a rather similar look.

    Now, if some PC manufacturer out there can produce hardware that looks are gorgeous as Mac products, with Windows 10 it would not bother me much to go back to Windows.

    Honestly, if Apple just treat us as money-fodder, I really have no more heartfelt affection for Apple anymore.
     
  19. asiga, Oct 25, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2014

    asiga macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    I think the OS X/iOS integration is problematic from the start because they're not addressing the real needs. They introduced handoff as a poor image of the ideal integration, which would be just drag apps from the Mac into your iPad or iPhone and vice versa.

    You don't want handoff, you don't want depending on whether a developer supports handoff or not. You want to just drag the app from one machine to the other, period. This is the paradigm that would make Apple appealing again.

    But they've a problem: the lack of access to the file system in iOS. This choice was made by Steve because he thought of doing simple tasks only. But whenever you're working with a big project, you need a file system. This difference between OSX and iOS will hurt their integration a lot (how can you integrate apps that work with documents that keep references to other files in the file system? just think of big drawings, big music compositions, 3D modeling, code development, etc)

    I truly believe Apple has lost the point in almost everything they do now.

    What I feel theyre trying to do is increasing the income by force you to update your hardware more frequently and at a higher cost. If you want a powerful Mac, with a top of the line CPU, it's more expensive today that 10 years ago. I remember I could buy a G5 Mac with a powerful GPU (for the era) at an affordable cost. Now they're removing all powerful components from the lowend and midrange and putting them in high end models only.
    At the same time they're making OSX a heavy monster, so you really need a fast machine if you want it to be as super smooth as Snow Leopard in its days of glory.

    And of course they're forcing you yo upgrade OSX to heavier versions (the new requirement that all iOS apps must be use the iOS 8 SDK to be approved in the App Store is just a way of forcing you to upgrade).

    Everything they're doing is obviously a miss
     
  20. grahamperrin macrumors 601

    grahamperrin

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    #20
    fughoff (n. collective); 'a fughoff of operating systems'

    I disagree about the misses.

    Much of what Apple does is a hit, spot-on, bullseye. A thing can hit the mark without being popular.

    A small proportion of what the 'new' Apple does is popular, but not a hit in the above sense. A smaller proportion is so far from the bullseye, it can be excruciating to users who enjoy(ed) the fullest benefits of the Human Interface Guidelines (HIG) as they existed before the release of OS X 10.10.

    The worst parts of Yosemite looked so hideous, I physically cringed. My head shook in disbelief.

    I expect more Apple developments around continuity in 2015, maybe with an emphasis on carefree storage. However there's a repellent appearance to the operating system of one Apple device – the potential to integrate becomes meaningless – there'll be no need to 'handoff' from that one, to a device with a less ugly OS – I no longer want to purchase an iPhone, no longer want to purchase an iPad, and so on.

    Prefer to use Mavericks with a USB flash drive.

    Collective nouns

    In nature:
    • a murmuration of starlings;
    • a bushel of apples
    – and so on.

    In technology, for a collection of systems with Yosemite in its midst … a bit of handoff with a dash of fugly … OK, I got it:
    • a fughoff of operating systems.
     
  21. phrehdd macrumors 68040

    phrehdd

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    #21
    This notion of spreading too thin (for me) is silly. I am not calling you silly but you have to remember that Apple has a massive amount of dollars that they can throw at their product line. This ranges from hardware to software development. More often than not, it is the software that lags behind the hardware. Rarely does any OS take full advantage of a processor. Given Apple's altar of market model that always comes before real innovation and care, it is easy to see why Apple is the new Microsoft. - full of bloat, lack of respect for the serious user customer base and a failure to as state be really innovative. There is a difference between a logical progression of software or hardware and a market model that remain somewhat rigid that often puts form before function.
     
  22. TomTomHatesCats macrumors regular

    TomTomHatesCats

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    #22
    No doubt. Apple has the dollars but they have a finite number of creative & software development teams, who have had to broaden their focus to accommodate desktop/mobile integration, across more devices than they've ever had before, inside the same annual release cycle.

    So, the money helps for sure, but I think they spread themselves thin on time and focus, but that's the bed they made.
     
  23. grahamperrin macrumors 601

    grahamperrin

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    #23
    More than a broadened focus, I think …

    Also (if my perception of a '****-you theme bulldozer' is true): I suspect that within that finite number, a significant number of individuals were forced, by a driving person or driving group, to do work on designs that those individuals viewed as lacklustre or downright nasty. I imagine those individuals' thoughts being less polite than "had to broaden my focus" ;-)
     
  24. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #24
    Yeah, they are. But not in the way you think. Apple is now suffering the same issues MS did back in the late 90's, early 00's. Their sudden upswing in popularity means you've now got more people using Macs than at any point in the company's history. And know what comes with those people? More eyes on more problems.

    There have always been people who have had goofy issues with Apple products. Like OSX had a brainfart, and decided to delete everything in their home folder, or their year old Macbooks end up getting so hot, it desolders the GPU from the fan. They're real problems, but they're only experienced by a small group of people. For the sake of conversation, we'll say about 5%.

    When Apple was a smaller company, that 5% wasn't much. You'd run across a few complaints here and there, and someone would pop in and call them an Apple Hater or whatever, you know how these things go. But now that Macs are more popular, that 5% is suddenly millions of people experiencing problems. And you know what these millions of people are going to do? Whine, moan, and groan on every tech site and messageboard they can get access to. That's what people do when things don't work quite as well as expected. It gives off the impression that Apple's once sterling quality control and customer service is sliding downhill, when really it's just the same subset of problems, experienced by an exponentially larger group.

    It's the same way with MS. There are millions of people out there using Windows without a care in the world. Yet you can't throw a rock without running across 500,000 Windows horror stories. Know why that is? Because there are far, far more people using Windows, and thus a far higher potential for people to experience a problem.

    Now the same thing's happening to Apple. They're not going downhill. They've just got more people out there breaking it, then complaining about it.
     
  25. phrehdd macrumors 68040

    phrehdd

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    #25
    So as not to get into flaming here - first, I'll say there is some truth to what you say as to one facet of this comparison but if you really understood Microsoft from the beginning and all their exploits, you wouldn't be so hasty to try to sum it up as a statistical find and only a statistical find.

    Anyone who knows Windows knows quite well that perhaps only NT 3.5 was a reasonably stable OS. All of the other versions of Windows had issues and being told that "reboot" is a solution when in fact it is not. It is the sign of a lousy OS. Microsoft as well put out lots of software that was also as some would say - the worlds largest beta that people pay for. MS outright lied on some of their offering including Access that was supposed to be "married" to Visual Basic and the reality was that it was not. The list goes on and on. As for Apple - it doesn't take much to figure out that the "professional" software offerings are stagnating and taking rather curious turns of events or simply being dropped for a more lower common denominator customer base.

    As someone who has been around the block a few times in IT and IS, dates back to early days of DOS, OS/2 and the like, I prefer to take a more clinical view of what is going on and not try to wrap it up in how many units sold vs complaints. -That would be lackluster and misleading.
     

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