Apple’s special gold isn’t so special after all

Discussion in 'Apple Watch' started by pragmatous, Mar 19, 2015.

  1. pragmatous macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    #1
    In the video above, produced by Apple to highlight its gold process, Ive explains how the watch body is made. He describes quite clearly that the gold is an alloy of silver, copper and palladium, not a composite.

    Ive then describes how the alloy is cast into ingots, rolled and formed into billets, and machined to form the Apple Watch Edition’s case, buckle and Digital Crown.

    The process makes no mention of ceramics, composites or any non-standard techniques. “There is nothing particularly new here,” said Peker. “These are known methods of production for gold parts.”
    http://www.cultofmac.com/315297/apples-special-gold-isnt-so-special-after-all/
     
  2. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #2
    OK. Jonny Ive says that Apple is using a gold alloy containing gold, silver, copper, and palladium. This jist of this report appears to be that Apple does not use a gold/ceramic compositer, but rather an alloy of gold, silver, copper, and palladium.

    Nothing in the report attributes to Apple a claim that it used a gold/ceramic alloy. Where exactly is the controversy here?
     
  3. saving107 macrumors 603

    saving107

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Location:
    San Jose, Ca
    #3
    Grasping at straws is more like it.
     
  4. gibbz, Mar 19, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015

    gibbz macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    #4
    All of the speculation about ceramic was attributed to an Apple patent. They never claimed this Edition used that process - bloggers speculated. What is the point?
     
  5. ksuyen macrumors 6502a

    ksuyen

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    #5
    According to that article, it's a good thing that Apple does not use composite ceramic-Gold. What's the problem? Special does not mean better.
     
  6. matrix07 macrumors 68040

    matrix07

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    #6
    Yeah.. the headline is so click bait, unsurprisingly. The "special" part refer to Apple patent that all Android fanatics here claimed Apple is using less gold than anybody else. Now when it is not so special after all, what does it actually mean? Oh, surprise surprise, they could have use more gold than they were accused. Shocker!

    All things consider it's no wonder some Android fans will fall for this. They fell for the patent. Now they fell again for this ****.
     
  7. Julien macrumors G3

    Julien

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Location:
    Atlanta
    #7
    I pointed this out on March 9th.;)

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1853598&highlight=edition
     
  8. dacreativeguy macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    #8

    Attached Files:

  9. JayLenochiniMac macrumors G5

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Location:
    New Sanfrakota
    #9
  10. Julien macrumors G3

    Julien

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Location:
    Atlanta
    #10
    It does seem like a strange thing to say since it IS a conventional alloy. The normal way to get molecules closer together is to lower the temperature.:D
     
  11. 8CoreWhore macrumors 68020

    8CoreWhore

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Location:
    Big D
    #11
    Bloggers gonna blog.
     
  12. MeFromHere macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    #12
    Well, Jony didn't say how much closer together the molecules are. (It seems odd to me that he said "molecules" instead of "atoms", but he's a designer, not a chemist, so I'll ignore that.)

    I found a 1922 study of the crystal structure of silver-gold and silver-palladium alloys, as well as "pure" silver, gold, and palladium. They found that:
    1. The lattice spacing varys depending on the alloy composition, and
    2. For some mixtures, the lattice spacing deviates from a simple linear dependence on the alloy composition.
    In other words, you can vary the distance between the "molecules" by varying the alloy mixture.

    Big deal. I still think Jony was being overly dramatic on this point.

    Reference:
    http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1922PhRv...20..424M

    I suspect Apple's extra-strong gold is mainly due to work-hardening, with some contributions from the particular alloy composition they use.
     
  13. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Location:
    Cabin by a lake
    #13
    On the contrary, most of the speculation about whether Apple might use their composite gold patent, came from Apple or Apple friendly sites:

    Apple have devised a new kind of gold for Apple Watch - Cult of Mac

    Apple’s patent-pending 18k gold: Harder, more scratch-resistant, and ‘less gold’ - MacDailyNews

    Apple's Invention Regarding the Creation of New Gold Alloys for the Apple Watch Edition Emerges - Patently Apple

    Apple patent reduces gold content of 18k gold, maybe for Apple Watch Edition - iDownloadBlog

    Is Apple’s real watch innovation a gold case that’s as tough as steel? - Ars Technica

    Brilliant patent details how Apple may be saving money on the 18k Gold Apple Watch - BGR

    Apple Invented A New Kind Of Gold For Apple Watch - iStyleNews

    Apple devises new kind of gold for Apple Watch - AppleZA

    Apple’s patent-pending 18k gold: Harder, more scratch-resistant, and ‘less gold’ - Rogifan

    Half the whole point of all the speculation on Apple fansites, was the hope that Apple would come out with a more affordable Watch Edition. (The other half was trying to explain why Ive was claiming extra strength.)

    Both were generally seen as Good Things.

    The only way it would've been seen in a bad light, is if Apple had used the less-gold-filled composite AND charged $10,000.

    Thus the article quoted in the original post, was meant to reassure fans that Apple was using a more standard 18K mixture.
     
  14. cmChimera macrumors 68040

    cmChimera

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    #14
  15. JayLenochiniMac macrumors G5

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Location:
    New Sanfrakota
    #15
    Yes, but it didn't help that Jony Ive was quoted as saying "the molecules are closer together in Apple gold" as if it's something more special than a conventional alloy. This is what helped fuel many of the speculations.
     
  16. Rogifan macrumors P6

    Rogifan

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    #16
    I think the speculation spread when blogs started reporting on an Apple patent application for a new gold alloy which included ceramic. Seeing as it was just an application and not an approved patent I never thought it would be part of this generation of Watch.
     
  17. Julien macrumors G3

    Julien

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Location:
    Atlanta
    #17
    Yes, I found this right after Apple posted it but the number of threads were coming fast and furors and it was buried in no time.:D
     
  18. matrix07, Mar 21, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015

    matrix07 macrumors 68040

    matrix07

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    #18
    Hence, less gold, like I said. We laughed at this rumour (that it will be used in this 1st generation of the Watch). Only foolish Android fans took it seriously.

    Nobody suspected that. Only foolish Android fans did. So this never happens, maybe only in your head.

    Initially, nobody suspected anything about Apple's 18 Karat gold claim before this patent. 18k is 18K. It was printed right there on Apple page, why should we have a doubt? So please provide the source and quote exactly where it said that, according to you, Apple's claim of 18 Karat gold was already dubious before somebody saw this patent.
    When the blogs started posting about Apple new gold alloy otherwise...

    As the beard said, Yep. :)
     
  19. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Location:
    Cabin by a lake
    #19
    As I already pointed out with plenty of links, Apple fan sites were quite involved with the possibility that the Edition would use the new gold patent to allow a lower price.

    Plus it was being used to explain Jon Ive's claim about their gold being "twice as strong".

    Not sure why you keep wanting to bring in Android. It had nothing to do with this.

    You really seem confused by what the patent is about.

    Yes, 18K = 75% gold. However, a composite matrix requires half the overall material mass, thus the same 75% would require half the gold of a comparable non-composite case.

    Again, this was mostly seen as a good thing, price wise.
     
  20. matrix07 macrumors 68040

    matrix07

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    #20
    Since when Apple fan sites stopped posting rumours for fun? And this prove exactly how? You never read tons of Apple patents that never being used posted by all these sites?

    Speculation that, again, only foolish Android fans fell for.

    Because only foolish Android fans took this unconfirmed rumor seriously. And thought what Apple fan sites posted are a gospel truth. :D



    You seem confused by the whole situation. The 18 Karat Gold is printed clearly on the Apple page. Nobody suspected anything about it. I'm still waiting for your link and exact quote that there was someone having a doubt about this before the whole patent thing. Someone reliable that's not anti-Apple.
     
  21. uwdude macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2014
    #21
    It would be interesting to see if some company can test the gold once the watch is released and see what the alloy is. Is there a company willing to pay $10,000 to get their hands on one to test and publish the results for the publicity? Although it would be a pretty boring article if it turned out the gold was a standard alloy.
     
  22. Julien macrumors G3

    Julien

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Location:
    Atlanta
    #22
    Why????

    Jony Ive says what the alloy is in the film. Just watch it and you can know for yourself. He says and it is the standard copper, silver and palladium alloy. Of course the Rose Gold will contain a higher copper to silver ratio than the Yellow Gold.
     
  23. Piggie macrumors 604

    Piggie

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    #23
    So if it's a standard normal 18k gold, what's with all this rubbish from Apple then?

    "we created Apple Watch Edition in 18-karat solid gold. Since it's a soft metal, susceptible to nicks and scratches, our metallurgists engineered an entirely new alloy that's up to twice as hard as standard gold"
     
  24. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Location:
    Cabin by a lake
    #24
    That's because I don't know what your point is supposed to be :)

    Nobody ever said it wasn't 18 kt gold.

    Is that what you thought people meant when they referred to the patent?
     
  25. matrix07, Mar 22, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015

    matrix07 macrumors 68040

    matrix07

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    #25
    Nope. Before the patent fiasco, there's only one heated discussion about the gold: is it 18 Karat solid gold or is it 18 Karat plated gold. After somebody posted about the patent, the Android fans turned the discussion to: now according to this patent, which no one confirmed is being used, Apple 18 Karat gold is using less gold than the industry. so they could be able to claim that the Edition should not cost us much, which in turn will be their weapon attacking the Edition when the price unveiled.
    For us Apple users? We're just rolling our eyes all along knowing "Apple fan sites" always posted about patents that Apple is not using or even never use it.

    See. Isn't hard to understand. :)
     

Share This Page