You’re talking about something completely different. And market domination becomes a monopoly when not regulated to ensure free competition.
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Apple Asks Indian Court to Block Antitrust Law Allowing $38 Billion Fine
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Not only a false analogy it’s factually incorrect. There are duties and sales taxes that are paid via Apple products when sold. Seeing as Apple isn’t an Indian company, how is it liable for company taxes in India?
Yes, on a Mac you can download Apps from the Mac AppStore or directly from the creator of the App ... I invariably do the latter. But it seems that option on the iPhone is a non-starter for Apple, and that's why, all over the World, there are these lawsuits against Apple's restrictive AppStore for iOS.
In another 3-5 years we will be able to download Apps from anywhere on our iPhones. Until then, we all have to agree to the Terms and Conditions of the Apple Prison.
Since when has that ever been an option on those devices? Never, yet people continue to buy them and argue for something they know they won’t get. The entitled generation marches on.
Maybe because there’s 90% more competitive device usage in India than Apple. Oops, inconvenient facts.
Why do people even bother with Apple hardware if it so offends them for not allowing side loading? Wouldn’t buying a device that does allow this alleviate everyone’s annoyances, even those happy with the Apple ecosystem? Why should the whinny minority get to decide what the majority happily pay for? If the ecosystem is so flawed, why are iPhones so popular? Buy Android and save everyone the aggravation.
So, what you meant to say is: “when 9% of the users are there, one has no choice?” While it would be reasonable to use the expression “everyone is there” if it was a substantial part of the user base, but 9% is so far from everyone as to make your statement false.
They have 9% of the market. How are they not allowing “competition”? The market is not the “iOS” market, it is the smart phone market.
My mother is a perfect example of why Apple’s walled garden is hugely advantageous to the computer illiterate. My mom is 86 years old and knows nothing about computers. She got an Oppo Android phone but knows nothing about how to use it. All she does is play games on it and does not configure her phone in any way because she doesn’t know how. Unfortunately, her phone is infested with ads that pop up onto the main screen every minute or so. She has no idea how to get rid of it, and doesn’t even know that the popups are ads. She thinks they’re games and tries to play those ads. That makes the problem even worse as even more ads infest her phone. Just think how irritated you’d be if you got an ad popping up on your phone hundreds of times a day.
I finally sent her my old iPhone 14 Pro, and voila! No more ads popping up every minute. This is what people advocating for “the Wild West” are causing. I would have wiped the phone and started over, but people like my mom have no idea how to even start. They are the ones who have to call their tech support relative to get things fixed. This is the benefit of the Apple walled garden. People here who think it’s perfectly fair to gut Apple’s security are those who would know how to handle major problems like viruses and excessive ads, but most people aren’t that knowledgeable. Most aren’t as bad as my mom is, but there are millions who are close to her level of computer illiteracy. Just thinking of people trying to turn iOS into Android really angers me on behalf of people like my mom. People like her really need that kind of protection.
The really egregious thing about these laws in India and the EU are the pure arbitrary definition of what constitutes anti-competitive behavior and then penalizing it long after the fact. In other words, Apple entered their markets not even knowing that they would be declared anti-competitive since Apple devices, except Macs, have been like that since the very beginning in 2007. Now, out of the blue, they get fined $38 billion for doing what was just fine a year ago. On top of that, these countries are doing it purely out of protectionism. The reason Apple has only a mere 9% market share in India is because of import duties that nearly double the price of Apple devices. If not produced within India, these phones are subject to nearly 100% tariffs. That’s why iPhones didn’t sell and is why Apple in recent years started moving their iPhone manufacturing to India, just to get a chance to get into the Indian market with its nearly 1.5 billion people. In the EU, Apple is only slightly better off at about 23% market share with Android owning almost all the rest, but the EU has to protect Ericsson and Nokia. Yet somehow 23% market share is deemed as anti-competitive.
I finally sent her my old iPhone 14 Pro, and voila! No more ads popping up every minute. This is what people advocating for “the Wild West” are causing. I would have wiped the phone and started over, but people like my mom have no idea how to even start. They are the ones who have to call their tech support relative to get things fixed. This is the benefit of the Apple walled garden. People here who think it’s perfectly fair to gut Apple’s security are those who would know how to handle major problems like viruses and excessive ads, but most people aren’t that knowledgeable. Most aren’t as bad as my mom is, but there are millions who are close to her level of computer illiteracy. Just thinking of people trying to turn iOS into Android really angers me on behalf of people like my mom. People like her really need that kind of protection.
The really egregious thing about these laws in India and the EU are the pure arbitrary definition of what constitutes anti-competitive behavior and then penalizing it long after the fact. In other words, Apple entered their markets not even knowing that they would be declared anti-competitive since Apple devices, except Macs, have been like that since the very beginning in 2007. Now, out of the blue, they get fined $38 billion for doing what was just fine a year ago. On top of that, these countries are doing it purely out of protectionism. The reason Apple has only a mere 9% market share in India is because of import duties that nearly double the price of Apple devices. If not produced within India, these phones are subject to nearly 100% tariffs. That’s why iPhones didn’t sell and is why Apple in recent years started moving their iPhone manufacturing to India, just to get a chance to get into the Indian market with its nearly 1.5 billion people. In the EU, Apple is only slightly better off at about 23% market share with Android owning almost all the rest, but the EU has to protect Ericsson and Nokia. Yet somehow 23% market share is deemed as anti-competitive.
How is a market where 91% of the customer have made a different choice not a free market? By your world view, Coke has 100% of the Coke market, making it a monopoly.
It has offered users a choice. One can load anything one wants on an Android device, or when can buy a device where Apple provides a walled garden. That choice is exactly why most people who buy it do so, and why they pay a premium for it.
Again, simply not true. Most of the top 1% got there by creating new companies almost none of which have anything close to a monopoly.
How is the takeover of a once thriving free market economy by a communist dictator related to Apple’s App Store fee structure?
apple only collects sales tax from the end user and passed that to the local government but doesn't pay any taxes to the local government for the online store "because it is on the Internet" but supposedly pays taxes in USA for running a business, or apple can always choose not to sell in India. Tim Cook has previously said apple follows all local laws when he removed vpn apps in China.
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Sigh… I don’t normally throw the dictionary at someone, buuut…
Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words
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Sigh, I don't normally have to tell people this, but...
At most 8% is nowhere near 100%.
The highest estimate you'll find is that iOS holds only ~8% of the Indian market. But, sure, you go ahead and use "everyone" as a figure of speech to refer to that minuscule share.
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Apple absolutely pays corporate taxes on the profits of its Indian-incorporated subsidiary (for its retail / distribution / local business). Apple India Pvt Ltd. reported $370M of profit last year, which given its size, would have produced almost $100M in taxes assuming the standard Indian corporate rate of 30%.
I don’t know how Apple’s Indian subsidiary is set up, but even assuming it was somehow paying the corporate minimum tax of 22%, that’d be $70M in taxes paid to India.
Your inability to use computers properly should not inhibit my ability to do as I wish.
Needs of the many (normal users) outweigh the needs of the few (nerdy tech enthusiasts). Especially when the few can just buy a different device and have the ability to do as they wish.
Your preferences aren’t more important than mine or Apple’s. Buy a different device if that bothers you.
If we can force Apple to work with everyone else. Then we can force everyone else to work with Apple. It's fair(er). And in this specific case. I just want games in return. Which can totally be done by every game studio out there. No matter how obscure their gaming engine is. They could all do it. There is no excuse anymore.
Your inability to see beyond your own nose means you’re constantly walking into telephone poles.
When software is designed for everyone, it makes the ecosystem stable and rich for everyone, even for the “me me me” users who want it built specifically for them.
But Android is not allowed to talk to MacOS!!! Does everything on my Mac transfer seamlessly to Android? No, because Apple prohibits any sharing of anything, except to other Apple products.. So if I have a Mac, I really need an iPhone to share features. My Mac allows side-loading but the iPhone does not. Therein lies the issue.
Did you not have a choice to make when you purchased the Apple product? Could you not have purchased something else that would have worked well enough for your needs? Or did you only have one choice and no other?
This is not the same conversation. We can have a whole other conversation about how profitable companies are or how much they pay in taxes etc. I stated long ago that "this" is really the reason for the regulations being put in place. Governments just want the money. To which I also said "tax them more". Because asking for 10% world wide turn over is just basically saying "give me money because of this new rule I made up". Which I'm more fine with any government taxing business more to then use to invest internally to create some kind of competition for apps or devices. Come up with a free to use OS and some kind of hardware standardization that any company can use to crate a new phone (or other) device that can do many if not all the same kinds of things an iPhone or Google Pixel can do. For less money and an open architecture OS to use any AppStore's you want.
Yes it is. Every company has to compete with other companies. Apple has chosen to do so in a closed manner. Others went more open. People have the choice of picking which one works best for them.
Well, we aren't there yet. And when other countries can come to some kind of other standard to well, standardize on. Let me know. As you have to move your dollars to some other instrument (conversion) to get to something else. In other words, who is going to be left holding dollars? Pick your currency that everyone else will work with and has the liquidity to support it. Of the next 3 that could do it. Yuan, Euro, Yen. I'd say no to the Yuan. They manipulate their currency all the time, which inherently makes it untrustworthy to keep its value. As it's not a free floating currency. The Euro, they don't want it to be a global standard as they have made no efforts to do so. The Yen, have you seen its value? Plus both the EU and Japan are US allies. So, they will not try and dethrone the dollar for their own. If anyone thinks BRICS will some how take over. I would say, again. With what? Gold? Sure, you move that around the globe to settle payments. Who is going to protect that shipment crossing the open oceans and seas? Bitcoin(any crypto), HA! Good luck getting countries to settle based on wild fluctuations of any crypto currency. They would have to create something more stable than any that exists today. While also giving up full control over it (since they will all want to have some control over whatever currency they use. None of them are very trustworthy as is).
I don't see it happening in my lifetime, so I'm not exactly worried about it.
30% was and still is less than any physical store. I'm still not seeing any developer go bankrupt over the 30% fee to Apple or any Appstore (playstore). Specifically, they are selling on the AppStore(s) and they go out of business because they can't make money while also paying the 30%. So they are selling at a loss. Which no business would do. They would all sell whatever they make knowing that the final price includes what they need to make and profit. While the cut/fee would cover the "stores" cost. I.E, they would sell a $50 MSRP product. With $15 going to Apple for the fee (30%). So, $35 would be the going to the developer per sale. I would expect $30 covering all the costs associated with that App. And $5 being straight profit.
I would also mention that you can play Fortnite for free. Without ever giving a dime to either Apple or EPIC for that game. If you so choose to purchase a DLC via IAP. That product is already created whether you purchased it or not. And if EPIC is losing money on such a thing. It has WAY more to do with people just not wanting to buy it in the first place. Since the game is free to play. Verses 30% potentially going to Apple. And we got to see first hand (well EPIC did anyway) how not being on the AppStore affected their bottom line. People didn't stop buying iPhones because Fortnite wasn't available. EPIC lost money (revenue) because iPhone users couldn't play the game for EPIC breaking the rules. So to recap. Apple did fine and continued to grow. EPIC did not. So who needs who more?
We can say 30% is too much. But, in light of the options available to any software maker at the time the stores came out. 30% is way better. AND it also ensured sales were sales. No theft. No keys/licenses to deal with. Instant and safe transactions every single time. World wide.
That's because of their government.
I need to find the specifics but there was a case last year I think it was, where a European country kept on fining Apple for a breach of the app store and said they would keep fining Apple until Apple stopped doing what it was doing. Apple just ignored the countries request and kept paying the fine. This proved if the fine is not substantial enough Apple does not care and will carry on doing what it wants to do. Having this law is very important because it would stop the likes of Apple behaving that rules and laws do not apply to them.
Apple really should consider a Pro/Advanced mode for iOS/iPadOS that allows everyone to be satisfied with their Apple hardware purchase.
I like the ideas we've seen floated about picking at the time of setup and only being able to switch modes by doing a full wipe/restore and living in and staying in whatever mode you chose at the outset.
(to assuage the concerns about rogue developers trying to dupe folks into anything nefarious w/ alternate Apps).
And no one is forcing Tim to persue the course he is doing either.