Apple Care v Sale of Goods Act (UK)

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by redshovel, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. redshovel macrumors 6502

    redshovel

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    #1
    Over the years I have been informed by various media, such as newspapers, & tv programs such as BBC watchdog to name a few, about the Sale of Goods Act.

    The main point of interest for me is the following:


    Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

    Under the Sale of Goods Act, the retailer must either repair or replace the goods 'within a reasonable time but without causing significant inconvenience'. If the seller doesn't do this, you are entitled to claim either:

    reduction on the purchase price, or
    your money back, minus an amount for the usage you've had of the goods (called 'recision').
    If the retailer refuses to repair the goods, you may have the right to arrange for someone else to repair it, and then claim compensation from the retailer for the cost of doing this.

    You have six years to make a claim for faulty goods in England, Wales and Northern Ireland; in Scotland you have five years.

    What you need to do to prove your claim
    If your claim under the Sale of Goods Act ends up in court, you may have to prove that the fault was present when you bought the item and not, for example, something that was the result of normal wear and tear.


    Now would it be fair to say that if your trackpad or display stopped working on your MBP after, lets say 15 months, and you didnt have Apple Care you can claim under the terms of The Sales of Goods Act that the MBP is 'not fit for purpose' and must have had an inherent fault and demand a free repair.
     
  2. thegoldenmackid macrumors 604

    thegoldenmackid

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Location:
    dallas, texas
    #2
    Given government. iThink Apple Care will fix things a tad bit timelier.
     
  3. johnnyi macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Location:
    Glasgow,UK
    #3
    No you Cant on all electrical products purchased with the U.K you get a year guarantee to cover you for defects.The 5 year guarantee your are talking about as far to my knowledge the fault has to be from the start of when the product was purchased and you have to be able to prove it was from the start which is usually pretty hard.I am sure this is correct but if i am wrong then i stand corrected !.

    Jonathan
     
  4. redshovel thread starter macrumors 6502

    redshovel

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    #4
    The fixing of things has got nothing to do with the Government!
    The Sales of Goods Act is a law to protect both consumers and sellers and therefore must be upheld by both.

    However I have had mixed experiences with the of this law in the past.

    1. When my Plasma screen developed a fault after 24 months I requested Currys (store of purchase) repair it. They refused and said my 1 Year Warranty was over and that I should have taken out an Extended Warranty at the time of purchase. I quoted the Sale of Goods Act to a few staff member including a store manager but they either talked round it or claimed to be 'unaware' of it. To cut a long story short I eventually got to speak to an Area Manager who understood that I knew my rights. The tv was collected the following day and returned 10 days later repaired and at no charge to myself.

    2. During the four year of owning a very troublesome car a major fault developed with the transmission. The car now out of warranty I requested the dealer pay for this under the Sale of Goods Act. They refused stating the 3 year warranty was over. I took the dealer to small claims court but lost. The judge said my case was 'well presented' but his interpretation of the law was that only previous repairs within the warranty period could be claimed for upto six years. He read a previous case of a client who had purchased a boat with a defective rudder that was repaired after 6 months. It broke again after 4 years and was therefore covered under the Sales of Good Acts.
    My gut feeling is that the judge thought I was entitled to a refund of the repair but didnt want to make 'case law'.

    I just think it worth trying when your standing there with a 2 year old MPB with stuffed logic board in one hand and no Apple Care in the other:D
     
  5. hitnrun7 Guest

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2008
    #5
    If you have the 8600GT GPU i think apple extended the warranty to 3 years either for the GPU itself or the entire logic board seeing as it is soldered on.

    Does anyone know if Canada has a similar law? I would like to exploit it in the future.
     
  6. iLog.Genius macrumors 601

    iLog.Genius

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #6
    It's not a law, it's a program Apple decided to introduce because of the flaw with the 8600M GT GPU and is not country-specific (not to my knowledge) since it was product-wide.

    As for what's covered, it has to the the GPU. If the logic board fails, that program doesn't come into effect and you would have to pay for any repairs done to your computer.
     
  7. ditzy macrumors 68000

    ditzy

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    #7
    This is incorrect. The law covers you for what you could reasonably expect a product to last for, up to 6 years. Apple themselves are prepared to insure a mac for up to 3 years. Which means that apple themselves believe that it is reasonable to expect their computers to last at least 3 years.
    To the OP I think that you have a good case.
     
  8. redshovel thread starter macrumors 6502

    redshovel

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    #8
    Yes but Apple want you to pay for the those 2 extra years via Apple Care. My point is that the Sales of Goods Act, if deemed to apply, provides a warranty for upto 6 years for your Mac and its FREE.
     
  9. ditzy macrumors 68000

    ditzy

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    #9
    Absolutely, I don't think that in the case of a computer that the law will cover you for 6 years. As most people don't expect a computer to last 6 years. But 3 is certainly a reasonable expectation.
     
  10. euanmackie macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    #10
    the 5-6 years under the sale of goods act is about how long you have to claim... not how long the product becomes faulty. Therefor if under the warranty period the product becomes faulty and you can prove the fault was within that period then you have the 5-6 years to claim for that fault. for example the trackpad breaks after 6 months, then you have the time to claim if apple chose not to service it. However if the trackpad breaks after 4 years its not covered.
     
  11. khakilad macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    #11
    The law changed last year and it is now up to the retailer ( Not the Manufacturer I.E. Apple Retail Sales) to prove that the machine was not faulty when you bought the machine, taking the pressure away from the consumer.

    A great reference for this is @ http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
     
  12. redshovel thread starter macrumors 6502

    redshovel

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    #12
    Ok so under that interpretation the consumer could claim the trackpad broke after 9 months and they choose only now after 4 years to make a claim for repair. How could Apple or any retailer disprove this?
     
  13. geoffreak macrumors 68020

    geoffreak

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2008
    #13
    Witnesses.


    If I were you, just call Apple and be nice, but firm. You are going to have a hard time getting them to fix it, but you do have a chance.

    Next time just buy AppleCare. :rolleyes:
     
  14. redshovel thread starter macrumors 6502

    redshovel

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    #14
    :confused:What are you talking about??:confused:

    'Witnesses'??? What - Apple have people spying on you and know the exact moment your track pad broke.

    And the point of the thread is to discuss the issue of needing to pay for Apple Care when really there maybe, according to some interpretations, already protection in place for consumers.
     
  15. MacModMachine macrumors 68020

    MacModMachine

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Location:
    Canada
    #15
    for one thing, the sale of goods law is for DEFECTs, not everyday use, you used the product for a year and it breaks...you did not buy the warranty then there is no way/reason you should get it fixed free.

    that law has been revised and well thought out, not to replace warranties but to protect customers from defective products,

    it states you have 5 years to put a claim in against a defective product. the logic board failing after one year is not a defect but a result from everyday use of the laptop or possible abuse....im not saying you abused yours but that the law is simply there to protect consumers from companys with defective products such as products that have failed constantly and consistently across the amount being sold.

    electronic parts are designed to run so many hours, some fail early , some do not thats what warranties are for.
     
  16. geoffreak macrumors 68020

    geoffreak

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    Feb 8, 2008
    #16
    What I'm saying is that Apple could talk with the theoretical person's friends and family if that person were to take this to court and these friends and family would be witness to the fact that the computer hadn't been broken for several years.;)
     
  17. redshovel thread starter macrumors 6502

    redshovel

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    #17
    Well the last few posts contradict what is stated on such TV programs like BBC Watchdog - when they investigate Extended Warranty Schemes.
    The program through it presenters and expert guests always state that a product should last for a 'reasonable' amount of time without need for repair.
    The item they often use as a case study is a Washing Machine usually around £300-£400 and say a reasonable mount of time for the product to operate without failing is 3 years. Therefore the extended warranty Currys or whoever is trying to sell you is worthless - as your are aleay covered under UK law for 3 years.
    So going off that price point is it unreasonable to ask a MBP to last for 3 years without fail and if it does so the retailer repairs it free of charge - never mind stumping up for Apple Care.
     
  18. MacModMachine macrumors 68020

    MacModMachine

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    Apr 3, 2009
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    Canada
    #18
    "expert guests"...that get paid 5000$ per episode to read a pre done script....sounds like BBC watchdog to me...


    you interpreting the law wrong, you think if you buy anything you are entitled to 3 years of operation worry free?

    its not that people haven't challenged this law....its that the ones that have always lost.

    pretty simple, law protects from defects...but does not protect you from normal use and wear and tear...thats what warranties are for.

    you did not buy the warranty....therefore you should pay for the repair.
     
  19. ditzy macrumors 68000

    ditzy

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    #19
    This isn't accurate. The sale of goods act has nothing to do with warrantees. Retailers will try and convince you of that, but it is not true. If a product becomes faulty within a time where you could reasonably expect it to work. (Up to 6 years) The retailer has a legal obligation to fix or replace it.
     
  20. ditzy macrumors 68000

    ditzy

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    #20
    Relevant or Related Legislation:
    Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.

    Key Facts:
    • Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

    • Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

    • Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

    • It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

    • If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

    • For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

    • A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

    • If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

    • In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

    • If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

    • After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

    http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html
     
  21. DesignerOnMac macrumors 6502a

    DesignerOnMac

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    #21
    Sorry but you lost me on this one! If my trackpad broke in 9 months I certainly would not wait 4 years to calm it broke within the first year and demand it be repaired for free. (Scratches head)
     
  22. euanmackie macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    #22
    Yes i understand how it seems silly to wait that long. however you have to put a time limit on how long people have to claim etc.
     
  23. sevenmatthew macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    #23
    I might have a claim!

    Hey Guys, I was reading up on the sales of goods act and came across this forum as i have a faulty three year old macbook pro that i was using for high school.

    When i first got my macbook pro i noticed the battery was expanding so i looked online and found out from my serial that i had a bad battery so apple sent me out a new one no problem from online.

    A few months later the same problem happened again but just not as bad, this time i took it to an apple repair company who give me a new battery after about 2 weeks.

    Everything was great until after a few months had passed the magsafe charger wire had started to burn and eventually it stopped working, i then had to wait weeks to buy another charger and when i got it the macbook pro wouldn't charge the battery anymore making it more of a desktop computer and very annoying as i wanted to use it for college.

    The only thing is i have left it for so long just saying i am going to get it fixed but never getting to it and a year has passed.

    My question is can i claim as it has been faulty since the day i got it.

    Thanks, Matthew
     
  24. dannster macrumors regular

    dannster

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Location:
    London, UK
    #24
    My lawyer friend has always told me that as part of your statutory rights if whatever you own breaks due to poor manufacture (ie it's their fault and not yours), then they have to either replace or repair it free of charge no matter how old it is.
     
  25. MacModMachine macrumors 68020

    MacModMachine

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Location:
    Canada
    #25
    prove that its their fault and not yours.....


    thats the problem.
     

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