MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
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15,161
iTNews notes that Australian reseller, NextByte, is planning on pushing into the corporate space.

We aim to push more into the enterprise space,” Steinhardt said. “We are now evaluating which suppliers we will align ourselves with...We see top opportunities to lead with Macs...with an Apple solution for the enterprise.”

Steinhardt is the managing director of NextByte and is described as a Mac proponent. Apple's introduction of the PowerMac G5, the Mac's ease of use and lower maintainence costs are cited as reasons why the Mac may provide some challenges to the PC in the enterprise market.
 

scan300

macrumors 6502
Mar 25, 2003
256
0
Melbourne, Australia
Next Byte have a good aggressive marketing presence in Australia, so if anyone can be successful in promoting a mac enterprise solution, they can.

Macs have had a small but healthy presence in corporate Australia. Of note is Optus Cable and Wireless, which until recently were prolific with iMacs in their shops.

Focusing on savings in IT staff and slower hardware turnover, maybe where the Mac will have a niche.
 

weev

macrumors regular
Jan 21, 2003
180
0
Sydney, Australia
I kind of miss the rumour aspect of this thread, and yes, that's how we spell rumour. Unlike you North Americans we don't leave 'u' out :)

Seriously, must be a slow rumour day....

BTW, Apple Aust have released the G5 prices....

1.6 A$ 3,599.00
1.8 A$ 4,499.00
Dual 2.0 A$ 5,599.00

A$1 = 68c US
 

rjwill246

macrumors 6502
Feb 22, 2003
415
0
USA (often) and Adelaide, OZ
Re: Apple Enterprise in Australia

Originally posted by Macrumors
iTNews notes that Australian reseller, NextByte, is planning on pushing into the corporate space.
Steinhardt is the managing director of NextByte and is described as a Mac proponent.

I hope he is a Mac proponent! That's what the store sells!!! Funny way to make such an obvious statement.
Phillips Fox in some of their offices also use Macs.
 

Remel

macrumors member
Jun 19, 2003
47
0
Western Australia
Good prices

Weev, The prices you mentioned are pretty good considering what Apple Australia charged in the past.

Assuming A$1 = 68c and taking into account the 10%GST, the prices are only 10% more expensive than those in the US.:)
 

Wardofsky

macrumors 65816
Aug 6, 2002
1,194
0
Next Byte, the one that left Buzzle before it colapsed after it wanted more power.

Heh heh, you think greed for power would sink it but in the end, greed for power saved them (Next Byte).
 

zakkk

macrumors newbie
Jul 2, 2003
1
0
Australia ripped off again...

Ok, I kinda rant here but I really want to get an answer...

$3000 US is $4417 OZ yet we're expected to pay $5600...

one question...

WHY?

I just don't get it...the machines are built in asia - a lot closer to Oz than the US. There's less overhead in running the australian operation (staff paid less, less benefits, no high rent apple stores, non-existent advertising, no conferences). Sure we're a smaller market at 20 million people or so....20 million is not insignificant...its a lot more than most US states...and yet the entire US gets to pay $2999 plus bundles/rebates that never seem to make it over here...

I would really like to know....who gets the extra cash? Apple? The government? The dodgy guy at the corner who apple oz use for currency transfer? With prices like these Apple is going to remain a largely unprofitable boutique brand outside of the US. I've got a cube, powerbook and ipod...all purchased used...theres not a hope in hell of me getting new ones...and I'm a well paid software developer!

And to continue....I belive the .Mac membership is still $200 here (can't check - Apple Oz store seems to be down).... $200? what exchange rate are they using? If they server are located locally (which they're probably not) why aren't the benefits passed on to the locals? i.e. cheaper hosting, electricity etc.

Apple are innovating but MS always catch up...and they pay attention to global markets....

Remember Apple brought out the first laserprinter, revolutionized the desktop publishing industry....could have owned the printer business....bzzzt. Remember the first digital camera - the apple quicktake (quickshot?) ...could have owned the digital camera businesss.....bzzzt. Remember apple brought out the iPod? best mp3 player? but it was priced artificially high abroad and they went out of busines...
 

Vonnie

macrumors regular
Apr 13, 2003
138
0
VAT is not included in the US store, but is included in European stores. (and I guess australian stores too)
 

asim

macrumors member
Jun 30, 2003
45
14
charlottesville, va
Re: Australia ripped off again...

Originally posted by zakkk
...
Remember apple brought out the iPod? best mp3 player? but it was priced artificially high abroad and they went out of busines...

what is the state of the ipod internationally? to the best of my knowledge it is still considered best of class in the US and i had assumed abroad as well.

afc
 

weev

macrumors regular
Jan 21, 2003
180
0
Sydney, Australia
Re: Australia ripped off again...

Originally posted by zakkk

$3000 US is $4417 OZ yet we're expected to pay $5600...


Based on xe.com comversion rates, Aussies are paying in US Dollars (and US prices):


1.6 2,449.83 USD (1,999)
1.8 3,062.55 USD (2,399)
2.0 3,811.34 USD (2,999)

Australians are hit with GST (goods and services tax, included in above price).

Yep, it's somewhat dearer here for sure, which means the best bet is to go to the States (or Asia) and bring back a laptop, hee hee!

I have used macs exclusively since 1987 and have only bought two of them new (Plus, LC575). Regretted both purchases because better and cheaper came out weeks later. Especially the Plus which didn't even come with a hard-drive, forcing me to pay A$500 for a 20 Mb drive. A week later later the Classic came out and included a HD.

Once ripped off forever shy. Thank you Curtin Computer Store.

Now how long before those Duel 2.0 G5 are in the Trading Post? Probably as soon as the Duel 3.0 machine come out - so, according to Jobs - a year!

I can wait.

By the virtue of their quality-build Macs make an excellent second-hand machine.
 

asim

macrumors member
Jun 30, 2003
45
14
charlottesville, va
are there import duties for computers in oz? could this account for some of the discrepency?

also, their contracts in other countries may require them to go through a third party (locally owned) importer/distributer. i don't know if this is the case here, but it also would add another 5-10% to the price.

it looks like there is about a 25% premium. 10% for tax, 10% for duties, 5% for third party distributor/importer.

also, since exchange rates are volatile, international companies often price something so that it is a fair price to them at the 1 year worst exchange rate.

just my $0.02 (or $0.0294 Aus)
 

j763

macrumors 6502a
Nov 25, 2001
660
0
Champaign, IL, USA
Originally posted by scan300
Next Byte have a good aggressive marketing presence in Australia, so if anyone can be successful in promoting a mac enterprise solution, they can.

Macs have had a small but healthy presence in corporate Australia. Of note is Optus Cable and Wireless, which until recently were prolific with iMacs in their shops.

Focusing on savings in IT staff and slower hardware turnover, maybe where the Mac will have a niche.

I beg to differ.

The blokes at Nextbyte have to be the most incompetent bastards on the face of the planet... Couldn't organize a pissup in a brewery.

I was so disappointed that they didn't sign onto Buzzle... I would have loved to see them go under.

Their technical support is frankly shocking -- on many occasions they've had workexp. students who are unauthorized doing work that requires special apple authorization.

They can't put part orders into apple in a timely fashion and we all know that apple sure doesn't get em back in a timely fashion.

They're basically weasles who want to make a quick sale... When you leave the door, they don't want to see you again, unless it's for another sale.

They hardly meet their bare requirements under warranty.

Incompetent Bastards!

re Macs having a "healthy presence" in corporate Australia, you have to remember that Apple sell less Macs in Australia & New Zealand Combined -- that's Corporates, smallbus, edu and home markets than they do in San Fransisco to Home users, excluding the bay area.

In other words, Australia & NZ don't count for crap to Apple. Keep that in mind when waiting for a iTMS in Australia :)
 

encro

macrumors 6502
May 6, 2002
451
1
bendigo.victoria.au
How is it even possible to sell Mac's in Australia when Apple don't even do any genuine advertising. All I have seen is the Ads in Australian MacWorld and Business Review Weekly (BRW).
What about some genuine advertising on television.

It's no wonder almost everyone still has the impression that Macs are incapable beginner machines when no one even really knows what they are because their only impression is a Mac Classic ][ Plus (I can't remember what they are called now ;-)
 

rjstanford

macrumors 6502
Oct 30, 2002
272
0
Austin, TX
Re: Re: Australia ripped off again...

Originally posted by weev
Based on xe.com comversion rates, Aussies are paying in US Dollars (and US prices):

1.6 2,449.83 USD (1,999)
1.8 3,062.55 USD (2,399)
2.0 3,811.34 USD (2,999)

Australians are hit with GST (goods and services tax, included in above price).
Just for the record, US prices quoted don't generally include sales/use taxes, but the consumer is responsible for paying them anyway. Since they vary by state, it would be a little confusing to list them all. I would say that most people in the US pay about 5% tax on purchases (0-10%+ range) making the average US prices:

1.6 US=2098.95 AUS=2449.83 16.7%
1.8 US=2518.95 AUS=3062.55 21.6%
2.0 US=3148.95 AUS=3811.34 21.0%

So AUS still pays a premium, but not (quite) as much as it looks at first glance. And its less on the lowest configuration (for whatever reason).

-Richard
 

MyLeftNut

macrumors regular
Dec 15, 2002
191
0
Melbourne, Australia
Still how do you explain the discrepancies? Would it be better to order from overseas and then see how you go or would import duties etc kill you...anyone?

Oh and there has been a fair amount of Apple advertisements, Ive noticed plenty on trams and bustops and billborads around inner Melbourne. Just no blanket TV coverage except for the powerbook ad every now and then...I say wait a bit until the Mac lineup is complete with updates and lowered prices then smash the public with everything theyve got..hehee
 

Telomar

macrumors 6502
Aug 31, 2002
263
38
Re: Re: Australia ripped off again...

There's less overhead in running the australian operation (staff paid less, less benefits, no high rent apple stores, non-existent advertising, no conferences). Sure we're a smaller market at 20 million people or so....20 million is not insignificant...its a lot more than most US states.
There is actually a greater overhead per unit in the Australian operations than US operations simply because costs don't scale linearly with size and to cover those Apple Australia relies on greater margins than their US counterpart. Until sales within Australia pick up, and sales there are quite poor last I heard, they can either run at a loss or keep the higher prices.

Unfortunately Apple Australia has also done a particularly poor job with keeping the education market in Australia.

There's also the whole issue of playing with the currency market. If the A$ drops tomorrow the values of their inventory devalue or increase in value along with it. Apple Australia as a result picks a conversion they feel is safe.
 

lloydgrey

macrumors newbie
Jul 3, 2003
4
0
Australia
Misconceptions / Corrections

Hi folks

I write the 'Re:Seller' column for Australian MacWorld magazine. For those of you that read it, you'll notice that I use a pseudonym (Eponymous), and indeed I do on this forum as well.

I feel a little compelled to correct some of what's being said, since I happen to have some insight to how it all works.

Firstly, to the person (rjwill246) that says Phillips Fox uses Macs - yes they do! I used to be their account manager a few years ago, but I wasn't the one that got them started in Macs in the first place. A nice place.

Moving along ....

Next Byte left Buzzle because they wanted more power, but it must be realised that they did deserve it. GM Computer (headed by George Mekrizis) refused to relinquish their large share in the enterprise to Next Byte (old habits die hard). GM Computer had only one store, whereas Next Byte had about 5 or 6 at the time. Yet GM had almost as much of a share in the business as Next Byte. if you were in Next Byte's position, I'm sure you'd feel the same way.

The whole exchange rate issue in Australia is an annoying one, however, Telomar has figured it out. Apple Australia has to make more per computer to meet overheads than in the USA. Hence the higher price. Once per year (i think) the Apple Australia managing director visits Mr Jobs (or whoever handles international relations) and the new products are made known. At that time, pricing and costs are estimated based on projected sales figures and expected operating costs. Closer to announcement, pricing is then adjusted based on exchange rates, market conditions, et al.
This was how i was told it worked by someone in the know - if someone out there knows better, I'd be interested to see more info.
Incidentally, the managing director (and two or three other people) are the only ones that know about the announcement - even less than a week beforehand.
When I say 'know' I mean actually know for sure - not those of us that are fairly certain based on rumours.

Advertising :
Apple Australia have a two-fold advertising system. A lot of money is spent producing materials for in-store promotion of Apple gear. The brochures, DL postcards and AppleCentre magazines (well, magazinelets) are paid for entirely by Apple.
The other part involves shared costs of promotion with AppleCentres. Most (but not all) TV ads are paid for 50/50 by Apple and the AppleCentre running the ad. Ultimately, however, Apple Australia's marketing budget is too small, in my opinion.


Now, for a bit of news.
For those who haven't noticed, Canberra-based AppleCentre group Mac1 now have six stores (2 in canberra, 1 in newcastle, 3 in brisbane), making them the 2nd largest group in the country. Next Byte are pretty pissed off by it, too. Mainly because Apple Australia has been showing some favouritism towards Mac1 - perhaps to bolster their development and make it a 2-horse race, instead of just one.
Rumour has it that Mac1 are out to kick some arse, but from what the Australian political system would describe as 'safe seats'.
If anyone has any news about their experiences with Mac1 (particularly in a non-brisbane location), I'd be interested to see what you have to say. I've mainly heard plenty of good things said about their level of service, although some limitations in product knowledge except for a few key individuals.
If, as discussion suggests, Next Byte are becoming less sensitive to their customers, but Mac1 are showing a greater amount of enthusiasm towards customer service, it may bode well for the Australian Apple market.

Incidentally, the Australian Apple market isn't as dead as people think. I think there's just been a reduction in marketing recently (- lord knows that the reason is). Several dealerships have reported a better-than-average June quarter.

Did you know?: Apple Australia had plans to open an Apple-branded store of their own in Australia long before Apple USA ever thought of doing so. The plans fell through due to actions taken by a large AppleCentre group (which collapsed along with Buzzle).


By the way - to those that read Australian MacWorld, what do you think of the Re:Seller column?

Eponymous.

p.s. No doubt my editor will see this and hit the roof. ;)
 

MyLeftNut

macrumors regular
Dec 15, 2002
191
0
Melbourne, Australia
Thanks lloydgrey or whoever you are ;) interesting info but it still doesnt explain the discrepancies..are you saying that Mac1's entry into the market may bring prices down to where they truly belong? I mean I cant see Apples market share increasing here if the prices arent as low as they can possibly be...profit and all...
 

748s

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2001
690
31
Tiger Bay
sorry llyod haven't bought a mac magazine for years. i was only aware of next byte having one shop at buzzle time (pymble, sydney). where else did they have shops? they did go on a buying frenzy after the collapse. the good thing about buzzle was some genius decided to have cameras rolling from day one, so the disaster was documented. how much did apple lose...wasn't it upwards of 20 million? they could have pulled some dollars back on tax write-offs but i suspect every mac buyer in au is paying a levy to make up the rest of the 20mil. also just wondering if you have ever written about the latest contracts apple are asking resellers to sign.
 

rjwill246

macrumors 6502
Feb 22, 2003
415
0
USA (often) and Adelaide, OZ
Re: Misconceptions / Corrections

Originally posted by lloydgrey
Hi folks


I feel a little compelled to correct some of what's being said, since I happen to have some insight to how it all works.

Firstly, to the person (rjwill246) that says Phillips Fox uses Macs - yes they do! I used to be their account manager a few years ago, but I wasn't the one that got them started in Macs in the first place. A nice place.)

A great summary. I spend time, mostly in the US these days, between the 2 countries and FWIW, here are some observations. The Apple stores are doing what they were intended to do. Great places to touch and use the gear, ask questions and not have anti-Mac BS thrown at you. iPods are the number one selling "MP3" player in the US and Japan. The new iSight is a stunningly designed webcam: can't wait for them to arrive in OZ. I called the Apple store from the US last night as I want my son to get one (he's at uni in Brisbane) ASAP. Will help with the long distance bill. It's aluminum mesh- like the G5s. Clear pix. Another "iPod" if you will.

The exchange rate in Australia has done a lot of damage I am sure but pricing the iSight from the Apple Store, with our sales tax (7.25%), the prices were within a buck or so. This may start to happen with the higher priced items though I guess there will always be an Ozzie "penalty" of sorts, but it will not seem like much, as the exchange rate has been the biggest factor ( in just over 9 months the $AU has gone from 50c to 66-68c). This is a huge swing.
In the US, there is little difference between a well decked out Dell, eg. and the new G5s ( in fact the diff can be in the Mac's favor depending on how you configure the Dell.) Caveat: the Dell's are not as well built as the Macs- you should see the innards of the G5 for comparison- this is a leap in build quality-, and the Dell's internals come from varying sources and quality control has become an issue. Dell does NOT rank well in terms of customer satisfaction and herein lies the rub. Since the introduction of OS X, the Macs and OS have been as sturdy as brick xxxx-houses and yet the perception (I am talking of the US, now) of price to performance has stopped them from exploding in sales. Sales have been good, increasing, I must add, except for the last 2 quarters and I am sure the numbers coming out soon will be abysmal BUT the orders for the G5s are going through the roof!!! At last, we should see a fantastic 4th quarter! The buzz from the computer stores (I like to test out the waters at CompUSA as they have a significant Apple section, is that Wintel users are constantly coming on board because customers are seeing the value in these new G5s and OS X. Meanwhile, the Music Store is really well done (I've spent about 100 bucks since day one.. simple and flawless downloads) and I am looking forward to the a G5 PB.. now, that truly might be a wait!
Enough for today.
Cheers.
 

scan300

macrumors 6502
Mar 25, 2003
256
0
Melbourne, Australia
Taking a longer term view, the Macs have been improving in value, (price/performance) to where we were in '95-'97.

We were once totally Mac based at my place of employment, approx 120 workstations with Unix servers. We changed to Wintel 95 in '97 and I am now but a 10 Mac island in a sea of Windows. I had to agree that Macs were slow, unreliable and disproportionally expensive then. Today's a different story, and I feel that Macs now have something new and significant to bring to the enterprise.

...if you really want to talk about disproportionate prices, think Quark in Oz. But that's another thread.
 

ipman

macrumors newbie
Jan 6, 2003
21
0
Canberra, Australia
canberra experience

I don't know if the people behind the AppleCentre at ANUTech in Canberra (AppleCentre Canberra City) are Mac1, but they are absolutely awful at service.

I took my iPod remote in, the sheath had broken after two weeks of normal use. They first made a big fuss over whether they could do anything. Finally they said they'd take a photo, send it to Apple and see what happened. I called two weeks later, they said "Oh yeah, come in and get it, it's been done for ages": gee, thanks for telling me!

They'd essentially super-glued it back on, and there was a note on the service form that said "Don't pull out by cord, hold the plug to remove from socket!!" How frickin' rude! So I called Apple and they said take it to another mac shop. I haven't had a chance to do that yet due to university exams, and now I'm on holiday for two weeks.

I think I'll call customer assistance at Apple and complain like a little... well you know!

Regarding Apple Australia in general, they seem to be pretty bloody apathetic, though I did get my pod pretty quickly =)
 

hasapi

macrumors newbie
Jan 29, 2003
23
0
Great Southern Land
Moving along ....

Next Byte left Buzzle because they wanted more power, but it must be realised that they did deserve it. GM Computer (headed by George Mekrizis) refused to relinquish their large share in the enterprise to Next Byte (old habits die hard). GM Computer had only one store, whereas Next Byte had about 5 or 6 at the time. Yet GM had almost as much of a share in the business as Next Byte. if you were in Next Byte's position, I'm sure you'd feel the same way.

With all due respect but you are a ******** when you make uninformed and totally untrue comments.

The value was derived by an independant auditor for ALL the businesses. At the time, Next Byte had grown to 6 stores (in OUTER suburbs), but its profitability was rather poor, whereas GM which had 3 stores in FAR more strategic areas of Sydney's CBD had a much better profitability, due to its Service Operations and Major Account Focus in areas of Publishing and Video, Film and Television. NextByte's focus at that time was purely RETAIL!.

And do you think NextByte was the only one dissatisfied with the auditors assessment?, No, but at least they chose to work towards the original spirit of cooperation, that cannot be said about the duplicidous nature of the proprietors of NextByte, they tried to hijack the entire company, but the remaining directors refused to accept their terms including GM Computer, in hind sight they should have let them have their cake, because the system Buzzle tried to implement was used by them, and they had the best expertise to implement it.

In the end, Delloitte Touche assured the directors that they would roll out Navision superior to Nextbyte's - famous last words!. :cool:
 

lloydgrey

macrumors newbie
Jul 3, 2003
4
0
Australia
A summary of responses

As I understand it, AppleCentre Canberra City has the same owners as Mac1, but the two stores are run independently. That means their own set of books, their own prices (on 3rd party gear), and a whole different set of technicians.

With regards to the iPod Remote, it's a hairy issue. Most of those sorts of items, as accessories, have very limited warranties. Assuming it is within the warranty period (and is a problem covered by warranty), Apple would usually replace the item. If you're in Canberra, try Mac1 instead, but your level of success could be highly limited - no matter where you take it.

Mac1's huge growth won't affect prices whatsoever. These are set by Apple, and few resellers reduce their prices by much as there's only a profit margin of about 8 per cent.
Want to help the growth of AppleCentres (and, as a result, Apple) in Australia? Don't just go to the AppleCentre and buy your third-party stuff from Harvey Norman. Buy the third-party gear from your AppleCentre, too.
For example, an AppleCentre makes MORE on a sub-$500 printer than they do on an iPod. The Adobe Design Collection makes as much profit for the store as a handful of eMacs (approximately).
Greater profits = greater growth. Greater growth = greater number of Mac sales (through initiatives taken by the AppleCentres). Greater Mac sales = greater sales for Apple Australia. Greater Apple AU profits = lower Apple product prices.

My iSight arrived today (or rather, the shop demonstration unit). It's great, but the picture quality is no better than a UniBrain Fire-i.

748s - Buzzle's debt was about $20 million, yes. If Apple Australia are charging a 'levy' to cover the lost money from Buzzle, they've not mentioned it to me (and probably won't).
And yes, I did a column about the contracts being suggested to Apple resellers in the USA. It was in the June issue of Australian MacWorld.

A lot of AppleCentres in Australia are starting to take on the Apple Store ideas. You can walk in to some of them now and see a digital camera (stills and video) working with iLife, hear MP3s playing from an iPod through an assortment of cool speakers, and see and play with all of the Apple CPU hardware.
In many cases, if you don't see it, you can ask to see it and they'll do their best to get it out and running especially for you.

I have little faith in Apple Australia, nor many AppleCentre owners, but there are a lot of good dedicated staff in the showrooms. Store managers and sales staff. I'm aware that this isn't the case in ALL stores (ahem, next byte surfers paradise?) - but I assure you I've seen, met and befriended many good ones.

"With all due respect" I'm a ********?
The blame for the collapse of Buzzle cannot be placed at the feet of the Navision software; and certainly not at those of Next Byte's directors.
Buzzle expected six (or was it seven?) competitors to come together and work all friendly-like after years of battle. Old habits die hard. Each director thought the others were idiots. How can that work?
Additionally, they picked the world's worst chap to be CEO; too many cooks were spoiling the broth; and the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing.
My favourite part was that they made the director of the most financially poor AppleCentre group (Scott Thompson of Mac's Place) the National Sales Manager!
And if you're curious, I would have preferred Tim Kleemann, a director of Next Byte, as Sales Manager. That guy is a sales GOD.

Lloyd Grey
 
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