apple genius upgraded my 4s & killed wifi - what can i do?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by ash101, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. ash101 macrumors newbie

    Jul 27, 2013
    i have an iphone 4s.

    it was an insurance replacement and hence i don't know if it was brand-new or refurbished-'new'. but it was only activated a few months ago so in its current state it is virtually new even though its out of warranty.

    anyway the wifi started to drop its connection and after a restart the wifi was grayed out (although the blue-tooth is still working).

    i know it is a common fault and i know some have found 'fixes' - which i would prefer not to try!

    anyway, the fault appeared shortly after a firmware update (from 6.0 to 6.1.3) which i see from other threads is not uncommon.

    i also see that most other people have not been offered much help from apple if their phone is out of warranty - like mine.

    i took the phone to an apple store (london-uk) and they said they know about the problem but its a fault in the hardware revealed by the firmware so it is not their problem, though they offered me an out-of-warranty-replacement with 30 days warranty.

    however, my situation may be different from others: in so much as i knew the 'grayed-out-wifi' was not uncommon with 4s phones (as well as battery problems) and since my phone was working fine with firmware 6.0 (and not under warranty), i decided i would not update the firmware anytime soon. then one fine day i went to the apple store in London to get help with a sim-card related issue and i noticed that when the genius was finished with my phone it was now running 6.1.3. the genius had upgraded the firmware (probably via wifi) without asking me or even telling me that he had done it. i did check the wifi signal in the store and saw it was ok and left the premises. soon after i noticed the wifi problem as mentioned above. so the genius rendered my smart-phone 'not fit for purpose' with the update, not me. does anyone know if that would make a difference in my claim for a replacement iphone? is a genius allowed to make the upgrade without consulting with the customer (surely not)?

    i understand all iphones connect to an apple server when ever the firmware is upgraded or restored and so theoretically apple could verify my story that the phone was connected to their network when the upgrade took place and that it was at the same time as my appointment with the genius.

    so any advice about how to approach apple with these facts ? - to convince them that even if the hardware fault was already there that it was the genius who stopped my phone's wifi - and if the upgrade had not taken place perhaps wifi would have continued to work for another year or 2 or even 5 (like my trusty old 3g).

    thanks in advance for any advice, tips and suggestions.
  2. jav6454 macrumors P6


    Nov 14, 2007
    1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
    Try going in and explain the facts as you stated. Nice, steady and courteous will win you over the replacement phone. Ask for a manager nicely if you think the Genius isn't getting into the point.
  3. ash101 thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jul 27, 2013
    thanks for being optimistic and giving me hope.

    i'll let you know how it goes.
  4. jav6454 macrumors P6


    Nov 14, 2007
    1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
    No problem.
  5. ash101 thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jul 27, 2013
    well, i made the appointment and went to store today, and explained to the genius what happened.
    told him that had the previous genius not upgraded the ios (and there was no need to do it just to find the carrier the phone was locked to) my wifi would still be working and could continue to work for another month, year etc.
    he agreed but said it wasn't in his power to issue a replacement phone without payment.
    so off he went to speak to his manager.
    on his return he said he didn't have a record of the upgrade the previous genius did, and that the only record of a reset done to the phone was the most recent one - done a week later. i had indeed tried a reset as that was what had been suggested on apple's own forum to fix the wifi problem (hadn't worked).
    so he was basicly saying maybe i did the upgrade and hence i had caused the problem for myself. i told him to ask the previous genius what he did as i had recorded his name at the time, and he replied that guy wasn't in the store at the moment.
    i know 100% that their genius did the upgrade but i can't prove it. i also know all iphones connect with the apple servers whenever a firmware is installed - so their computers must have a log of it (even if he didn't have access to it except for the most recent install).
    well i was shocked but couldn't do much more than that and payed for a replacement phone.
    the implication of what they said was: yes it would be their responsibility to replace phone (for free) if they had done the update, but they claimed they didn't have that info and i'm sure they know i can't prove that they did the upgrade.

    so any advice?
  6. smokescreen220 macrumors regular


    Jun 21, 2010
    California Native
    Was the wifi greyed out and was the 4S still under warranty?
  7. ash101 thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jul 27, 2013
    the wifi was grayed out and it was NOT under warranty.
    my question is: should apple have taken responsibility and was it a 'push-off' to tell me they couldn't see on their computers when the upgrade to 6.1.3 was initiated?
    they were basically calling me a liar to avoid taking any resposibility. and since i had no proof of my own that THEY DID the upgrade, there was nothing i could think of to do to fight back. so i gave in.

    any good advice?
  8. Carlanga macrumors 604


    Nov 5, 2009
    What you are describing is not a common fault...

    Anyways, just DFU restore as NEW and test it out.

    If it is still failing just take it to the apple store for replacement and tell them your wifi does not work, you don't even have to say your story, just complain about the wifi.

    AFAIK any device the geniuses touch they are supposed to first upgrade to the latest fw of the iOS device before doing anything else.
  9. Consultant macrumors G5


    Jun 27, 2007
    What you are claiming as "facts" don't make sense. Updating iPhone firmware won't kill wifi. It's not a "common fault". If it did there would be tons of outraged people and lawyers looking for blood.

    Also, Genius Bar procedures differ from your claim.

    Anyway, as Carlanga mentioned, DFU restore and test.
  10. smokescreen220 macrumors regular


    Jun 21, 2010
    California Native
    Was the device out of warranty when they looked at it and upgraded the OS?
  11. benji888 macrumors 68000


    Sep 27, 2006
    United States
    This statement simply is not true, I did not own 4S, didn't know about this problem, however...

    A few years ago my iPhone 3G, after updating to iOS 4, my wifi quit, grayed out on me. I'm pretty sure the new iOS overheated the wifi chip and burned it out, I wasn't the only one this happened to. I took it to Apple store and they replaced it, even though it was out of warranty. It came with iOS 3, and I did not update to iOS 4 (iOS 4 was very laggy anyway). But, I hear this kind of service can vary greatly by Apple store.
  12. Damolee macrumors 6502

    Nov 20, 2012
    I still to this day have no idea why they are called " Genius' " , they are anything but.

    It's a very tricky situation this one. The fact they upgraded the firmware could just be a coincidence.

    I hope Apple sort something for you, after all of the tax dodging over here while your average Joe's taxes went up, would be nice for them to do something above and beyond for a change.
  13. Merkie macrumors 68020

    Oct 23, 2008
    I don't understand the OP's story at all. Thread title states that the Genius killed the WiFi, but the OP states that WiFi was already greyed out before he went to the Apple Store?

    Also, why didn't you want try updating to see if it would fix your WiFi?

    Very confusing! OP is incapable of telling his version of the story clearly.
  14. ash101, Sep 10, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013

    ash101 thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jul 27, 2013
    i'm sorry my story was not clear to you.
    my wifi was working FINE at ios 6.0.
    i went to apple store for a completlely different reason - to find out what carrier phone was locked to.
    the genius(1) updated my phone to 6.1.3 without asking.
    very soon after the wifi 'broke'\permanently grayed out\etc (hence my title: update knocked out my wifi)
    -hopefully that is clearer.

    i went back to apple and the genius(2) told me that phone had damaged hardware inside (prior to the upgrade) that the new ios6.1.3 had identified and therefore had automatically disabled the wifi component. phone was out of warranty so he offered to replace it if i paid £139.
    i argued that if they know firmware 6.1.3 might identify a wifi problem and disable it then genius(1) should have warned me or at least asked if i wanted to update (and take that risk) before doing so, since my wifi was working perfectly fine on 6.0 and I DID NOT need the update.

    now is the shocker:
    he replied he did not have information of when the update to 6.1.3 was first done and therefore could not accept my story that genius(1) had done the upgrade without my consent.

    he knew that i cannot prove that genius(1) did the update. i thought apple kept logs of everything your iphone does, and anyone who uses itunes to install a firmware will know that itunes will verify the firmware with the apple server first before installing - so surely this is logged and archived on their computers?

    any advice how to fight back without the proof in my hands (but knowing they have the proof in their own hands but won't show it to me)
  15. Thierry ba macrumors 6502a

    Apr 10, 2012
    Sarajevo, Bosnia
    Why Apple call their employees geniouses, when they screw your iPhones? :rolleyes:
  16. GlynJones macrumors 6502

    Jun 15, 2005
    We have extended EU-wide Consumer Laws in the UK:

    If they said that the software upgrade detected a failed component in the 4s then as the link states you are covered as long as you can prove it is a manufacturing defect. The 4s is not 2 years old yet.

    Hope that helps.
  17. ash101 thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jul 27, 2013
    thanks but as far as i know no-one has managed to convince apple that it is a manufacturing fault or a fault in the design of the phone. how can the phone user prove that the phone was not dropped etc when apple tells them that's why the wifi no longer works?

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