Other Apple lost me with introducing a 3rd size (6.1") for the affordable 2018 iPhone. But is it just me?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by fruitninja, Feb 27, 2018.

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Is adding a 3rd size (6.1") as the 2018 affordable iPhone a reasonable choice for the customer?

  1. Yeah, introducing a 3rd iPhone size for a more affordable price point is totally reasonable for me

    58 vote(s)
    70.7%
  2. No, it's just your usual move by bean counter Tim, but totally unreasonable for the customer

    24 vote(s)
    29.3%
  1. fruitninja macrumors regular

    fruitninja

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    #1
    For the sake of argument in this argument, let's take aside the 4" iPhone SE size and that form factor's future. For the sake of this argument let's only consider:

    - The old 4.7" (16:9) iPhone which has transmuted into the 5.8" (19.5:9) iPhone

    - The old 5.5" (16:9) iPhone which is being transmuted into the 6.5" (19.5:9) iPhone

    Notes to geeks: the 6.5" (19.5:9) in 16:9 terms would be the same old 5.5" iPhone, while the 5.8" (19.5:9) iPhone in 16:9 terms would be an 5" iPhone, not a 4.7" iPhone. Probably because you'd never need something bigger in 16:9 terms than 5.5," but as for the smaller iPhone, the market may have changed a bit, or it's just became more feasible engineering-wise to go from 4.7" (16:9) to 5" (16:9) for Apple. Remember, Apple's usual strategy is not to be first, but to execute a strategy well. But hey! It's OK. Remember how Android phones went from 4.7" to 5" (16:9) years ago? I hope you could follow my basic calculations 16:9 and 19.5:9-wise.

    So Apple could just offer the affordable 2018 iPhones in 5.8" and 6.5", 19.5:9; the same sizes as the more expensive, "Pro" or whatever you call them, models. Why not. I just totally don't get why introducing a 3rd size (6.1") for the affordable model makes sense... for the consumer. If it's a move by bean counter Tim, then I can understand. But that doesn't mean the move is friendly for Apple consumers.

    The Pro models sure have the optimal sizes (5.8" and 6.5" 19.5:9), right? Heck, if you paid full price, you can expect them to be the perfect size. But what is one doesn't care for the dual cameras, probably better OLED screen, 3D Touch; he or she just wants a 2018 iPhone of the perfect size (with face ID; nothing more, nothing less); he or she then has to cough up the full "Pro" price just to have one of the perfect screen sizes for this new class of devices (5.8" or 6.5") not a compromised screen size (6.1"). I hope you can follow me so far.

    For a historical comparison, we can take the cheap 9.7" iPad vs. the new, 10.5" iPad Pro. The story is similar in a way that if you want the perfect size of iPad (10.5") you should cough up roughly twice the price ($649 vs. $329 for the base models). But hey; the iPad story is not the same as the iPhone story. Not long ago the 9.7" iPad was the best iPad ever, or the best small iPad, so it's just cheaper for Apple to produce this form factor longer with their partners (Foxconn, Pegatron, who else?). But the iPhone story is different; bean counter Tim just plans to introduce this brand new, compromised size (6.1") only to make you go Pro if the only pro feature you care is the perfect size. I don't like what I see here.

    For the sake of this argument, let's take rumors by face value. If history doesn't fool us, by this time we can take iPhone rumors by face value.
     
  2. Technarchy macrumors 604

    Technarchy

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    #2
    Presumably Apple is committing to the new Face ID and notch design and so an “entry model” is needed to cushion the sticker shock of the X and X+ in 2018.

    I’m not sure why the 2018 X can’t drop to $899. That would seem to make more sense than an LCD 6.1” model.
     
  3. Bruce Banner Suspended

    Bruce Banner

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2018
    #3
    Due to the profit margins, The 6.1 LCD iPhone will be much cheaper to manufacture compared to X.

    2018 lineup could go this way :

    8/8 Plus will be discontinued and replaced by 6.1 LCD iPhone at $749-799 (64 GB)

    Current X : $899 (64 GB)

    Send Gen X : $999 (64 GB )

    iPhone X Plus : $1099- 1149 (64 GB)
     
  4. darkus macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    #4
    Its not just you, this all seems to go against Jobs' ethos of keeping things simple. Now the choices are just getting very complex
     
  5. JPack macrumors 68040

    JPack

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    #5
    6.1” is the median and mainstream display size for the next few years.

    The S9 is 5.8” and S9+ is 6.2”. The 6.1” model falls right in between.
     
  6. Bruce Banner Suspended

    Bruce Banner

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2018
    #6
    There will be few drawbacks of 6.1 iPhone

    1. No Dual camera
    2. Aluminum framing
    3. No 3D Touch
    4. LCD Display
     
  7. JPack macrumors 68040

    JPack

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    #7
    The 6.1” model is targeted at iPhone 6 and 6 Plus owners. That segment of users is large and many of them see no compelling reason to upgrade to iPhone 7 or 8. iPhone X was too expensive.

    The drawbacks you mentioned are outweighed by the significant advantages in speed, form factor, and most importantly Face ID.

    Apple knows its current user base and the 6.1” model is almost a perfect instrument for targeting iPhone 6 and 6 Plus owners.
     
  8. Thor_1, Feb 27, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018

    Thor_1 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Location:
    Texas
    #8
    I bet there is still a large number of people who don't want face ID. I won't purchase a phone with it. When comparing the two, Touch ID worked much better for me. Just my opinion.
     
  9. JPack macrumors 68040

    JPack

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    #9
    I agree and iPhone 8 will probably have a long tail end and stay on shelves until 2020. By next year though, Face ID will probably match or outperform Touch ID in all areas.
     
  10. PBz macrumors 68020

    PBz

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    PVB, Florida
    #10
    I don’t see these as major drawbacks.
    Tiny ‘zoom’ lens on on a phone and IQ rarely go hand in hand.
    There are many who don’t care about wireless charging.
    Agree
    Torn here.. the LCD on my 8 Plus is a very nice screen. I do like how close to surface OLED on X looks.
     
  11. Vermifuge macrumors 68000

    Vermifuge

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    #11
    I'm guessing the LCD version will have the same resolution of the current X but a lower PPI. This should help prevent fragmentation. I'm also assuming iOS 12 will drop support for iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 5S and MAYBE iPhone SE. I think Apple would be happy to End of Life Those 1 GB phones. the SE could stick around for one more OS release though as it has 2 GB.
     
  12. fruitninja, Feb 28, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018

    fruitninja thread starter macrumors regular

    fruitninja

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    #12
    8/8 Plus will be offered $100 off the next year, go down one step in the value chain. Meanwhile: https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/31/iphone-6s-india-assembly/
    Discontinuing the 8/8 Plus after one year in production would make no sense. Absolutely. No. Sense. At. All.

    The rumor seems more plausible to me that first gen X will be discontinued (the same way you don't see last year's iPad Pros sold at retail at $100 off); only current generation of X will be on offer. Heck, it's premium.

    But I also see the rumor plausible (given sales figures, and production yields) saying second gen. X 5.8" will be $100 cheaper at $899, while the X Plus 6.5" will be offered at the $999 price point.

    Wait! That's a little oversimplification of facts washing together 6 and 6 Plus (similarly 6s and 6s Plus, and 7 and 7s Plus, and 8 and 8s Plus) owners, isn't it?

    I mean, one part of 6 and 6 Plus consumers (the 6 customers, namely), opted for a (by today's terms), smaller sized phone (4.7" in 16:9), ladies and gents with small to average hands, or for whatever their reason, while the other segment of 6 and 6 Plus consumers (the 6 Plus customers, namely) clearly opted for the much bigger phablet form factor. Washing these two, distinct segments together... I wouldn't be happy with you running my marketing. :(

    Wait! Apple historically has discontinued support for one generation of iPhones (the 4-generation old model, which is going to be the 5s this year). How did you decide that this will be the first to be different, that this year Apple would discontinue support for multiple generations of iPhones? And how about Apple now being a global company with customers all over the world, including developing countries?

    You know the big new slogan at Apple now is selling services to the installed base? Cutting off unnecessarily hundreds of millions of people worldwide from the ability to buy services from Apple... (Music, Apps, Music, Apple Pay) sounds like not the wisest business strategy to me. :)

    Not many of you addressed my main concern, my only concern in fact with Apple planning to introduce a 3rd size (6.1") iPhone: my main and only concern is size. Only @darkus seem to have noticed that, most of you talked about all things irrelevant to my original post.

    But you know what? Let me give you another concern: weight. The first gen. "small" X weights ~175 grams. The 6s-7-8 weights ~140-150 grams. Given the same size, the 2018 affordable iPhones should weight less than the X models of the same, hypothetical size, given the affordable models have only one cameras and not 3d Touch. so let's say if they produced the affordable 2018 iPhone the same size as the current X, at 5.8" it could weigh below 150 grams. But it's going to be bigger, at 6.1", so I assume it weight about the same as the X: around 175 grams.

    So is this the way forward? Are you supposed to carry bigger and bigger weights in our pockets? As I said in the thread starter, now let's forget about the SE and that form factor's future for this argument. That's a tiny-tiny phone; a different market. But for "normal" sized iPhones up to 8, Apple offered an option below 150 grams (that's a borderline small to acceptable weigh to carry for me), going forward into 2018, the minimum weight is going to be ~175 grams. Bummer.
     
  13. elf69 macrumors 68020

    elf69

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Location:
    Cornwall UK
    #13
    the new 6.1 LCD if released before my upgrade date it could well convert me back to IOS.

    for upgrade either this new 6.1 iphone or mate 10 pro.

    Either will do what I want of a phone.
    My last iphone was 6s+ and sold when got the mate 9.
    The iphone was 6 months old at the time of sale.
     
  14. JPack macrumors 68040

    JPack

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    #14
    Consumer preferences for form factor has changed dramatically since the iPhone 6 launch.

    The Plus size has now become the dominant form factor in today’s market. Take a look at recent launches by Apple’s closest competitors, Samsung and Huawei. They hardly offer anything smaller than 5.5”.

    Combined with Apple’s desire to raise their ASP, the $799 6.1” model is expected to be the preferred choice for most consumers.

    If you’re outside the norm, and want a smaller 5.8” or 6.5” product, you will be paying extra.

    It’s similar to the 11- and 17-inch MacBook market. Those sizes no longer exist because of affinity towards 13- and 15-inch models.
     
  15. fruitninja thread starter macrumors regular

    fruitninja

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    #15
    I'm missing Steve Jobs reality distortion field (aka. common sense) here. I mean common sense not for the bean counters, but common sense for the customers.

    This still doesn't address the weight issue I've just raised. According to my estimation (common sense), the rumored 6.1" model (without dual cameras and 3D Touch) would weight about the same as the X 5.8" model (with dual cameras and 3D Touch), at ~175 grams. 175 grams is just too heavy for my average (male) pockets. So from now on, mainstream consumers are just going to carry heavier bricks in their pockets... That's a brave new world for me.
     
  16. afir93 macrumors 6502a

    afir93

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2018
    #16
    Personally I‘d rather have my iPhone weigh a few grams more than further decreasing battery size and have it last 2 hours/day less on me. It‘s honestly the first time I‘ve seen the weight brought up as a disadvantage of the X compared to the 8, do these 10-15% more weight really matter that much in real-world applications?

    For years people have criticized Apple for making phones thinner and lighter at the cost of battery life, and now that they went a tiny bit into the reverse direction with the X by giving it a larger L-shaped battery, they‘re doing it wrong? If the 6.1“ and consequently the 6.5“ weigh a few grams more but therefore last a couple of hours longer than the current X (and even more so the 7/8) then I don‘t think many people see it as a concern. If you buy a larger phone then obviously it‘s gonna be heavier to accommodate for the larger screen and battery.
     
  17. tkukoc macrumors 65816

    tkukoc

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Location:
    Wish I Was In Space!
    #17
    Apple lost me 2 years ago with their have to upgrade magic. Got an 8+ through work contacts.. same with the X, otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered. Such minor changes to hardware and almost no changes to software. Until apple gets serious about software again I do not see a reason to buy another phone from them. I'm fine waiting 3-5 years at this point.
     
  18. Brandonjr36 macrumors 68000

    Brandonjr36

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2016
    Location:
    Joplin
    #18
    Because it’s going to be the exact same as the current X.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 28, 2018 ---
    I agree. I’m tired of the same old boring os. They need to for one fix the bugs and for 2 add some features or let us customize a little. So we don’t have to jailbreak.
     
  19. JPack macrumors 68040

    JPack

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    #19
    Apple has always been a company that drives product launches based on what they feel is right for the consumer. It’s not the other way around for them.


    Once again, look at competing products from Samsung and Huawei.

    There are probably a bunch people that felt the 112g iPhone 5 was the heaviest phone they would carry. Those consumers left the train a few stops ago. New consumers who are willing to carry bigger and heavier phones are now onboard.
     
  20. puma1552 Suspended

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    #20
    It doesn't make sense to have a 5.8" and 6.5" iPhone X/X+, and then have a 6.1" as the cheap one. I don't want a bigger phone, and the 5.8" iPhone X already is just large enough to be an uncomfortable form factor, so the "cheap" 6.1" will be even larger? No thanks...sticking with my 8 then.
     
  21. fruitninja thread starter macrumors regular

    fruitninja

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    #21
    OK. I've just compared the Samsung S8 and S8 to the iPhone X. The Samsungs offer around exactly the same screen real estate at 10 (S9) to 20 grams (S8) less weight. Yeah, I know the iPhone has 3D Touch and wireless charging and we are literally comparing here apples to oranges. :) But in my scenario I just want a conveniently sized screen, in a relatively low weight-to-body ratio, I don't care about having the best camera. A good enough one is good enough for me.

    My Motorola Timeport was about 140g grams back then, so iPhones before the 5 series. Now I'm willing to go up a little on weight from 140 grams for some smartness, but I don't find it convenient if the smallest weight choice is at 175 grams. That's not for me, not at all.
     
  22. RebelScum macrumors 6502

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    Toronto
  23. orev macrumors 6502

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    Apr 22, 2015
    #23
    I hate having Wikipedia:Overchoice remorse after buying an Apple product. In the old days you just knew what you were getting was the right one.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 28, 2018 ---
    Wrong. This is a well-documented problem that Steve Jobs knew very well. Having too many choices leads to stress and remorse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overchoice
     
  24. woodynorman, Feb 28, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018

    woodynorman macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2011
    #24
    If it has LCD screen, I'll buy it. I get eye strain/headaches from the X. Went back to the 8 plus.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 28, 2018 ---
    When I had the X, I thought it was a bit small (been using the plus since it came out. Returned the X due to eye strain/headaches). I'm looking forward to a slightly larger LCD screen. I normally buy the best, and biggest, iPhone Apple puts out. Will be a change of pace for me to buy the "cheap" one.
     
  25. puma1552 Suspended

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    #25
    True but they are basically telling the 4.7" people to get stuffed. There is a big difference in one handed use between a 4.7" iPhone 8 and the current X. Footprint is just different enough to push the X over the 2 handed threshold, and the lack of a 'chin' provided by the lower bezel necessitates reaching your thumb all the way to the bottom of the phone's physical form factor to reach active screen area.
     

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63 February 27, 2018