Apple not selling to Farsi-speakers. WTF??!?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Queso, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Queso macrumors G4

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    #1
    Apparently Apple won't sell iPhones and iPads now to Farsi speakers because they could possibly be Iranian spies......

    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/customer-apple-store-denied-me-ipad-speaking-farsi/nPY4p/

    Anyone (with half a brain) will know that when the 1979 revolution happened in Iran a large part of the population, mostly those with wealth and/or education, dispersed across the world to escape the Mullahs. These people are very much against the Islamic Republic that their country has become, yet their children speak Farsi as well as the language of whatever country they've settled in. The children of course, being progeny of educated and/or wealthy people, are pretty much themselves slap bang in the Apple customer demographic.

    What next? Identity papers required before any non-American English speakers can buy technology?
     
  2. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #2
    Ugly news :eek:

    Read more: http://www.electronista.com/article...trictions.backed.by.management/#ixzz1yQEFKeOl
     
  3. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    thats ridiculous...... surely selling them products like this works in benefit of US - iranian relations?!
     
  4. Fazzy macrumors 6502

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    #4
  5. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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  6. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    Tell me about it. My grandfather hates me because I'm Jewish-ish (non believing) and drive a VW.

    Well, he hates me because I'm not a doctor, lawyer, or some other profession making in the high six figures, overweight, haven't settled down and married a "nice Jewish girl", liberal, Obama supporter and refuse to become an uptight snobbish country club ******* with a stick up his ass like he is. But the German car doesn't help.
     
  7. splitpea macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    FWIW, the Volkswagen thing isn't just because it's a German car. It's because during WWII Volkswagen used slave labor from the concentration camps in their factories.

    I'm not sure what a refusal to buy their products accomplishes 70 years later, when almost everyone who was involved in making that decision is dead, but I can understand the disgust with the company and the lingering discomfort with your choice to purchase from it.
     
  8. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #8
    Is Apple refusing to sell to Farsi speakers, or people that are buying to resell in violation of its export compliance guidelines?
     
  9. aziatiklover macrumors 68030

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    Deal with it! It's not apple more like the U.S government, but I'm with them. Why would you sell the technology to terrorists aka buy them in the U.S and import them to Iran, Cuba ect....?!
     
  10. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #10
    If you had read the article sourced by niuniu, you'd have seen this last paragraph ...

    Does that change your views at all?
     
  11. Ricky Smith macrumors regular

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    #11
    Their statement is because of the resale. However they have no idea if that was their intention they just banned the sale because of the language they were speaking
     
  12. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #12
    It makes as much sense as black people refusing to buy American cars since this country allowed them to be used as slave labor for so long. I don't understand the disgust. Japan wasn't much better during WWII. No country has a perfect past.
     
  13. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #13
    Yep, unless the story fills out later with more details, it looks like a manager exercised his discretion based on ethnicity. The original Farsi speaking woman that was refused the purchase is actually an American citizen it seems.
     
  14. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #14

    And the store was in the Deep South:cool:
     
  15. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    Indeed, heaven-forbid Iranians and Cubans get hold of iPads. Would be the end of the world as we know it.
     
  16. splitpea macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    When was there slave labor on a Ford or GM production line? (Not saying they're squeaky-clean, but they aren't directly offenders in that particular sordid episode of our history).

    Japan had some pretty miserable concentration camps, but AFAIK they never supplied labor to Toyota or Honda, and AFAIK they were filled with soldiers, not civilians.

    Volkswagen is a specific company that used civilian concentration camp slave labor within living memory. People who survived that and whose near relatives survived that (or didn't survive it), or who could have been forced to endure it if their families hadn't been simply lucky enough to get out of Germany/Austria/Poland/Hungary/wherever before the **** hit the fan are understandably bitter toward the company.
     
  17. Fazzy macrumors 6502

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    Its reasonable to want your kids to follow your tradition, but when it comes down to not liking something because of what its nationality did decades ago, its kind of a crap thing to do. Even worse when you are the commander of an air force :eek:
     
  18. aziatiklover macrumors 68030

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    U heard 9/11 brah?
     
  19. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #19
    I would like to take issue with that statement.


    West Java
    During the occupation the POW and civilian internees in West Java were assembled in a few large camps in Batavia, Bandung and Tjimahi. A large number of native prisoners of war were released, the others were mostly taken to labour camps outside Java. Only about 5,000 POWs remained in Bandung and Batavia. The male civilian internees were concentrated in Bandung and Tjimahi, the women and children in and around Batavia.f



    Civilian camps
    Civilian internment started in March 1942 with the rounding up of prominent figures from government and industrial circles. In Batavia they were imprisoned in the Struiswijk prison, in Bandung in the Sukamiskin prison.

    In the months that followed the other totok men aged 17 to 60 who were not already in POW camps were also rounded up. They were assembled in the camps Struiswijk and ADEK in Batavia, in Kedungbadak near Buitenzorg, and in the LOG, Stella Maris, the Palace Hotel, Zeelandia, and the Dick de Hoog school in Bandung. Also in Bandung, old and sick European men and their families were housed in the small Rama quarter. Some of the totok men from the eastern parts of West Java were transferred to Pekalongan in Central Java.

    From September 1943 to February 1944 the LOG at Tangerang, west of Batavia, was used as an internment camp for men from Kesilir and Bondowoso in East Java. They later moved to Tjimahi.

    The mass internment of totok women, children and old men started in October 1942, in Batavia. Here the American, British and Australian women and children were interned in the Struiswijk prison. Internment locations for the Dutch women and children in Batavia were the quarters Tjideng and Kramat, and later also Grogol.

    The internment of the totok women and children from the Bandung-Tjimahi region started in November 1942. In Bandung they had to move to the Bandungese Tjihapit quarter, a process that took months and lasted until the spring of 1943. In December 1942 a second quarter, Kareës, was designated for the internment of women and children from the rest of West Java and from the western part of Central Java. British and American women and children were interned in the Lengkong school. In Tjimahi the Dutch women and children were housed in the camp Depot Mobile Artillery on Baros road.

    The women and children from the eastern parts of West Java were transported to Kareës in Bandung in December 1942, and to the Kramat camp in Batavia in June 1943.

    The Kedungbadak camp at Buitenzorg, a men’s camp until February 1944, from March to October 1944 served as a women’s camp for internees from Buitenzorg, Sukabumi and Central Java (Tegal and Pekalongan), and after that until March 1945 as a women’s camp for internees from Bandung. All of these women and children eventually ended up in camps in Batavia. About 500 women and children from Sukabumi were transported in July 1943 from the Sukabumi Opvoedings Gesticht (SOG) to the Kareës camp in Bandung.

    From September 1943 to the spring of 1945 women and children from all over Java were housed in a camp near Tangerang: at first in the Tanahtinggi detention centre, from March 1944 in the Lands Opvoedings Gesticht (LOG). Among them were many British and American women and children. From June 1944 groups of internees were exchanged regularly between the LOG and the camps in Batavia. In March-April 1945 the LOG was evacuated to the ADEK camp in Batavia, which functioned as a women’s camp from November 1944 onward.

    Concentration of civilian internees
    During 1944 and 1945 the interned women and children were concentrated mainly in Batavia, the men and older boys as much as possible in Bandung and Tjimahi. Many internees from Central and East Java were also transported to these locations. Former men’s camps were used as women’s camps and vice versa.


    Batavia became the largest assembly location for interned women and children from all over Java. The final camps for civilians in and around the city were Tjideng (approximately 10,000 women and children), ADEK (approximately 2,000 women and children), Kramat (approximately 2,000 women and children), Struiswijk (approximately 1,400 women and children), Kampong Makassar south of the city (approximately 3,500 women and children), and the two camp hospitals Saint Vincentius (approximately 1,200 sick men, women and children), and Mater Dolorosa (approximately 1,000 sick men and older boys from Tjimahi and Bandung).

    From October 1943 the camps in Tjimahi and Bandung served as assembly camps for men and boys from all over Java. In August 1945 there were three internment locations in Tjimahi: the 4th and 9th Battalion men’s camp, also known as Tjimahi 4, the VIP camp 6th Depot Battalion, also known as Baros 5, and the boys’ camp Depot Mobile Artillery, also known as Baros 6. In August 1945 there was only one men’s camp left in Bandung: the 15th Battalion Infantry. At the time of the Japanese capitulation these camps held a total of about 20,000 men and boys. In August 1945 only a few dozen women and children were left in the initially very large Bandung women’s camp of Tjihapit.

    In July and August 1945 several thousand men and boys from the camps in Tjimahi and Bandung were put to work to the east of Bandung on a new railway between Tjitjalengka and Madjalaja. In July two labour camps were established along the line for a total of 2,500 internees. Four days after the Japanese capitulation these men and boys returned to Tjimahi and Bandung.


    In May 1944 more than 100 Dutch women and girls, who had worked voluntarily or otherwise in one of the Japanese army brothels on Java, were put up in camp Kota Paris. Early November they and any family members were taken to the Kramat camp in Batavia.

    In addition to the regular civilian camps there were also many other assembly locations in West Java where Dutch Indonesians in particular were placed. Between January and March 1945 a total of about 600 Indo men and boys who had been rounded up during various raids in West Java, were assembled in the Glodok prison in Batavia. They remained locked up here until after the Japanese capitulation. Approximately 170 of these people were initially imprisoned in the Sukamiskin prison in Bandung.

    There were also many reception camps for non-interned, indigent Indo-European and native civilians, especially in the large cities, and various labour camps for unemployed Indo boys and impoverished Indo families, for example Halimun in Batavia, Tjiomas near Buitenzorg, Kelapanunggal to the northeast of Buitenzorg, and Gunung Halu and Pasir Benteng, to the southwest of Tjimahi.

    Central Java
    As elsewhere on Java, the POWs and civilian internees in Central Java were transported elsewhere or concentrated in a limited number of locations during the occupation. The POWs and the majority of male civilian internees were eventually taken to West Java. The interned women and children in 1944 and 1945 were assembled in Semarang, Ambarawa and Banjubiru. At that time a number of separate boys’ and old men’s camps had been set up here.




    Internment of civilians
    The European civilian men were interned in camps from April 1942, the Dutch women and children from November-December 1942. These internees were initially assembled in camps in Tegal, Pekalongan, Purwokerto, Banjumas, Semarang, Ambarawa, Banjubiru, Salatiga, Magelang, Muntilan, Djokjakarta and Surakarta/Solo.

    The interned men from the western part of Central Java were assembled in the prison and in the Mulo school of Pekalongan. Part of these men were transferred to Bandung in West Java and Ngawi in East Java in September 1943, the others were transported to Tjimahi in West Java in February 1944. The totok women and children from the westernmost residencies of Banjumas and Pekalongan were assembled in schools and hotels and then sent on to the Kareës quarter in Bandung in December 1942. In the north-western part of Central Java 1943 a second wave of internments of women and children followed in October, consisting mainly of Indo-Europeans. They were assembled in Tegal and Pekalongan and taken to Buitenzorg in West Java in March 1944.

    In Semarang the male internees from the city and the surrounding area were assembled in Djatingaleh camp. In August 1942 this camp was evacuated to Surabaya and Kesilir in East Java. In September 1942 about one hundred British and American women and children from Semarang and the surrounding area were interned. This group left for Tangerang in West Java towards the end of 1943. The internment of the Dutch totok women and children in Semarang started in November 1942. They were housed in the Lampersari-Sompok district. Early March 1943 the internment operation in Semarang was almost completed.

    In Djokjakarta and Surakarta civilian totok men were imprisoned in Fort Vredenburg in Djokja and in the Ziekenzorg hospital in Solo respectively. The men from Ziekenzorg and some of the men from Fort Vredenburg were transported to Ngawi in East Java in September 1943, in February 1944 the rest of the men from the fort went to Tjimahi in West Java.

    From August 1943 to March 1944 there was a small family camp on Batjiro road in Djokja for several dozen so-called Nippon workers, who were maintained in their positions by the Japanese for a period of time. The men were later taken to Tjimahi, their families were probably taken to Semarang.

    The totok women and children from Djokjakarta were not assembled in the city first; between December 1942 and August 1943 they were taken in groups directly to camps in Ambarawa, Banjubiru and Semarang. The totok women and children from Surakarta were brought to a camp in Sumowono, about 10 kilometres northeast of Ambarawa, in December 1942. This camp was closed down in March 1944, the internees were transferred to camps in Ambarawa.

    After the male internees left, Ziekenzorg became a camp for women and children. Some 850 of them came here from Malang (East Java). They were supplemented with hundreds of women and children from Surakarta and the surrounding area, mostly Indo-Europeans who had not experienced internment yet. In November 1944 another 700 women and children arrived from Bandung. Late May and early June 1945 Ziekenzorg was evacuated, the internees were taken to different camps in Muntilan, Ambarawa, Banjubiru, and Semarang.

    The male civilian internees in Salatiga were taken to Semarang (April 1942) or Bandung (early 1944), the women and children went to Ambarawa in December 1942 or June 1943. The interned women and children in Magelang also went to Ambarawa in December 1942, the men were transported to Tjimahi in February.

    In a monastery complex in Muntilan there was an internment camp for women, children, and clergy from that town from December 1942. In 1943 and 1944 women and children from Surabaya, Bandung, Ambarawa, and Surakarta were also placed here. Early August 1945 the entire camp population went to assembly camps in Ambarawa and Banjubiru.

    Concentration of civilian internees
    From the spring of 1944 and in 1945 the women, children and boys who were interned in Central Java were concentrated as much as possible in a few very large camps in Semarang, Ambarawa and Banjubiru. Many interned women and children from West and East Java also ended up here. By that time most civilian men had already been taken away, sometimes via East Java, to camps in West Java.

    In Semarang various camps were set up as assembly locations. When the Japanese surrendered, the women’s camps Lampersari-Sompok and Halmaheira, and the boys and old men’s camp Bangkong were still in use, holding a total of about 12,000 internees. In Ambarawa and Banjubiru, about 45 kilometres south of Semarang, there were almost 16,000 internees in the final month of war.

    Reception camps
    In addition to the regular civilian internment camps there were reception camps in various locations for non-interned Indo-European and other civilians without any source of income. These were frequently family members of captured Indo-European and native KNIL soldiers. Such reception camps could be found, for example, in Gombong (the KNIL encampment), near Magelang (Rawa Seneng), near Djokja (Demakidjo and Mudja-Mudjo) and in Surakarta/Solo (Gilingan).



    The main assembly camps in Surabaya were set up on the fair grounds, in the HBS school and in the Darmo barracks. Large numbers of POWs had to do cleaning and repair work in the harbour and in the city’s military complexes. This was usually done in outside fatigue duty from the assembly camps, but also from separate labour camps. From March 1942 to September 1942 a semi-permanent labour camp was set up in buildings of the Java-China-Japan Line (JCJL). This JCJL camp later also served as a transit camp for POWs who were transported elsewhere by ship.

    Separate labour camps were set up at Grissee, some 18 kilometres northwest of Surabaya (March 1942 to November 1943), and at Singosari to the northeast of Malang (until September 1942). On both locations there was work to be done on an airfield: in Grissee by about 700 Moluccan and Menadonese POWs, in Singosari by approximately 500 British nationals.

    Part of the group of KNIL soldiers who were east of Malang at the time of the capitulation were taken directly to Surabaya, the others were locked up in various military encampments, schools and hospitals in Malang.

    Starting in October 1942, the assembly camps in Surabaya and Malang were gradually evacuated, initially especially to Batavia and Tjimahi in West Java, in April 1943 also to labour camps in the Moluccas and on Flores. Many British-Indian and Indonesian POWs were sent away, for example to the Palau islands, as heihos. In February 1943 the camps in Malang had been cleared; in May 1943 the evacuation of the camps in Surabaya was also completed. However, hundreds of Moluccan and other native KNIL soldiers stayed behind in East Java; they were sent to Bougainville or New Guinea as heihos in the autumn of 1943.

    Men’s camps
    In April 1942 the first senior European officials and other male VIPs were interned. They were assembled in the Bubutan prison in Surabaya, among other places. Some were released because they were Indo-Europeans, or because they were still needed in their old positions. The men who were still held here in February 1943, about 385 in total, then went to Ngawi. In the autumn of 1943 a group of some 50 predominantly non-Dutch men were locked up in Bubutan, in February 1944 they were taken to Bandung in West Java.

    The remaining totok civilian men were assembled during 1942 and 1943 in the prison of Kediri (approximately 220 men), in the Marine barracks (about 1,000 men and boys) and the old prison or ‘kleine Boei’ (some 700 men and boys) in Malang, and in Fort Van den Bosch in Ngawi (more than 1,500 men, including Brits and Americans).

    From late January 1945 until after the Japanese capitulation more than 700 previously not interned Indo-European men and boys, who had been picked up during raids in East and Central Java, were locked up in Fort Van den Bosch.

    A different story was the experimental agricultural camp Kesilir in the easternmost district of Java, where from July 1942 to September 1943 more than 3,000 totok and Indo-European men from Central and East Java (from Malang and Surabaya, among other places) had to apply themselves to agriculture and horticulture. When the camp was evacuated most of the Indo-Europeans went to Tangerang in West Java, the totoks to Banjubiru in Central Java.

    Women’s camps
    From the spring of 1942 British and American women and children were being interned in the Werfstraat prison or Kalisosok prison in Surabaya, and in a sanatorium in Batu, west of Malang. Later on Dutch, Armenian and Iraqi women and children were also locked up in the Werfstraat prison. In December 1943 the approximately 200 British and American women in Batu and the 50 or so non-Dutch internees in the Werfstraat prison were transported to Tangerang in West Java.

    In East Java the internment of Dutch women and children generally occurred a little later than in West and Central Java. The largest women’s camps were the Darmo quarter in Surabaya and De Wijk in Malang. In Surabaya the removals to the Darmo quarter lasted until September 1943: first to go were the families that were no longer able to support themselves - mainly wives of navy personnel -, followed by the other families. Ultimately there were about 6,600 persons in this camp. Between November 1942 and January 1943 about 7,000 women and children ended up in camp De Wijk in the Bergenbuurt (Mountain quarter) of Malang.

    Smaller assembly locations for women and children were camp Galuhan, 12 kilometres south of Kediri, where some 350 persons lived, and the camps Kawarasan I and II, about 13 kilometres east of Kediri, where a total of some 370 persons were held. Furthermore, from May 1943 an unknown number of women and children were housed in Kediri prison.

    In October 1943 the women and children from Madura came via Surabaya to the Muntilan camp in Central Java.

    Nippon workers
    A number of European men continued to work at the agricultural enterprises for a considerable time; they were allowed to stay there with their families until further notice. Afterwards these men were assembled, for example in Kediri prison and in Fort Van den Bosch in Ngawi. Their wives and children generally ended up in camp Redjosari near Madiun, or in the women’s camps Galuhan and Kawarasan near Kediri.

    Other families from plantations were put up in Bondowoso, in two small separate camps for men, and for women and children, from July 1943. The men left in September for Tangerang in West Java, the women and children were taken to Semarang in January 1944.

    In a separate section of camp De Wijk in Malang was a camp for so-called ‘Nippon workers’ and their families; after their ‘dismissal’ in the course of 1943 or early 1944 the men were taken to the men’s camp in the Marine barracks. The longest existing - from September 1943 to February 1945 - family camp for Nippon workers was the camp on the Van Hoogendorplaan in Surabaya. Starting in June 1944 these people were gradually transferred to Semarang.


    One infamous example is the labour camp for Indo-European boys at coffee and rubber company Soember Gesing near Dampit. Between September and December 1944 some 300 to 400 boys were made to work here in groups. In the context of latihan (exercise) they had to cut down trees, carry water, and grow vegetables, among other things. Two small fires that had occurred during an air-raid alert - one at the plantation, the other in Malang - were probably the reason for the execution of thirteen Indonesian boys in June 1945. Dozens of others were sentenced to long terms in prison.


    http://www.indischekamparchieven.nl/en/general-information/per-island/java

    http://home.comcast.net/~winjerd/CivCamps.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
     
  20. Fazzy macrumors 6502

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    #20
    :rolleyes:
    But it doesnt make sense, especially 80 years on. Because of globalisation the cars are made of chinese, brazilian and british parts (to name afew) so its only german in its design really.
    Also, volkswagen Auto Group own a number of different companies including Porsche, Audi, Buggatti, e.t.c. Would it be reasonable to boycott all those companies too? If so, you'd have to apply that to every consumer product, and you'd end up living in a cave. Naked. Eating coconuts, and fish (provided they didn't come from a region whose economic policies or whatever that you disliked :rolleyes:)

    Lastly, the position the commander holds is very important. When you command all that power, it goes without saying that you put your personal prejudices to the side and act professionally. Its completely different to being just a normal bloke with a dislike for German cars.

    ----------

    It wasn't orchestrated by the Iranians.

    Did you know that Apple products are manufactured in China? Dont wanna support them commies, huh? Goes against some good ol' Murican values!
    America f***yeah!!
     
  21. Happybunny, Jun 21, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012

    Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #21
    Yes and they were mostly Saudi Arabian, one Egyptian, one from the Emirates.
    How's that brah?
    Not one of them from Iran, that's right brah, not one.
    Or do they all look and sound the same to your little mind brah?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_hijackers
     
  22. splitpea macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    OK, you got me there. I guess most of what I was always taught about Japanese interment camps focused on the military POW camps.

    Still, my point holds: individual Japanese companies didn't use the internees as slave labor in factories. (Nor were those camps, despite horrific conditions, intended for genocide.)

    My grandparents do, actually (not that they could ever afford a Buggatti.) For them it's personal in a "that would have been me" sense. And it's not just about where the parts are made. It's about where the profits go.

    Besides, it's their choice whether or not to purchase cars from companies that have genocide in their history, just as it's their choice whether or not to purchase veal from companies that confine calves to cages where they can't move.

    And I can understand why they'd be disappointed if I were to purchase a car from Volkswagen just as you might be disappointed if someone you cared about purchased products from a company that you thought engaged in deeply unethical practices (whatever it is you happen to consider unethical).

    Actually, no. It's pretty easy to get along in the U.S. without buying anything from companies that belong directly to German corporations that used slave labor in WWII. Not a whole lot of them survived, and those that did don't have their tentacles in *everything*.

    Although I do agree with the general point that if you want to deal with things you disagree with by boycotting and if there are more than a couple things you disagree with, yeah, you'd better go live in a cave.

    Where does it say he's prohibiting the people he commands from driving German cars? The guy is just taking a personal stand and refusing a perk. If the job came with a gift card to a movie theater and he refused to take it because he thinks there's too much nudity in modern film, would you also bitch and moan? This is about not endorsing a company that was directly involved with the people who put his mother through living hell.
     
  23. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #23
    *resists temptation to get banned*
     
  24. Fazzy macrumors 6502

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    #24
    Its not as though the current VAG owners advocate the use of concentration camps. I doubt 99% of Germans do and are ashamed of that period in their history. They've apologised and moved on. I don't understand why its a problem?
    I don't know how old your grandparents are, but they were brought up at a time where the horrors of the past were much closer to what they are now. Old habits die hard. But its different when you're in such a position of authority (see below)

    Of course its their choice. But its just a little bit childish to do it in 2012, don't you think? Holding grudges is unhealthy, especially after the hole country has apologised.

    I understand and accept your grandparents wishes much more than I would if it was someone younger. Being much closer to the time.

    How about getting away from companies that were once owned by slave owners back in the day? That would be more difficult.

    Yaay we found something to agree on :p

    The point is, its very immature and unprofessional. It would have been fine if he kept his reasons to himself, but shouting it out on the rooftops is kind of childish. Like I said in my previous post, it would be different if he was your average Joe, but this is a high level military commander. You have to act professional and put your personal prejudices aside.
     
  25. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #25
    Good for you.

    When confronted with idiocy, I usually resort to a good-old eye roll.
     

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